Scopes...the big issue

[.30 HART]

As everyone knows I love to shoot long range and it recently dawned on me that most guys today own rifles capable of taking longer shots at targets or game but one of the biggest hinderances is their optics. Let me explain....in order to be consistently accurate at extended ranges you must be able to hold dead on your target either by dialing in the distance on your scope or by using mil dots or one of the seemingly endless new designs out there.
The truth is most guys dont have the scopes capable of doing either. I have guys regularly call me and the conversation goes just like this typically......Hey I hear you got a range where a guy can shoot a long way and I want to learn to do that....me: Ill be more than happy but first lets talk about what you shoot......I got a BrandX rifle chambered in capable caliber...pause....pause....still silence....me: what kind of scope do you use.......99% of the time their answer is a 3-9X40 something with out turrets installed or either so cheap I would be scared to turn it for fear of breaking it or not being able to get them back zeroed. Target turrets arent mandatory but it sure makes remembering what your doing easier. If you are making a shot that requires 2 minutes elevation (8 clicks on 1/4" scopes) it is a lot easier to spin to the number 2 than to physically count clicks. There are several scopes on the market that come with turrets installed and you can get after market knobs for a lot of popular models.
Anyway this is an observation Ive made and if anyone would like to talk about what makes a good long range scope then we can.

[tddeangelo]

Dwayne,

Keep in mind that probably the 99% of the time you get those answers, you're talking a hunting rifle that was not purchased with this type of shooting in mind.

My Zeiss on my Model 70 technically fits your description there, as it's a 3-9x40 and it's lacking target turrets. Yes, it is indexed for 1/4-minute clicks. No, it's not labeled to make adjustments for distance shooting more efficient, so you'd have to count the clicks.

It would take something on the order of an Act of God to provide me with a shot longer than 300 yards where I normally hunt. With this in mind, then, I can zero that rifle at 200, be close enough for hunting purposes at all ranges below 200, and have to hold about 6.5"-7" high at 300. If I flub the range estimate and only hold 5" high, I'm still only hitting 2" below desired point of impact, which is likely plenty good enough on a whitetail. I also have to go to the range on Sat. and determine the magnification setting where I can use the duplex reticle as my aiming point for 300. My old Leupold that was on the M70 let me dial it to 9x and the duplex point on the bottom vertical portion of the reticle was dead on for 300. With the Zeiss, I haven't tried that. So I'll figure that out at the range on Sat., and then I'll know it for hunting purposes.

Beyond that, I really have no need to mount a mil-dot or target scope on my hunting rifle. It'd kinda be like putting an M1907 sling on it, which I've considered doing, by the way. I happen to just like that sling. The odds of me being able to "sling up" for a hunting shot are remote at best, so it would serve no purpose other than I just like that sling. Plus, if I would get a good tight sling position, it's possible the sling swivel studs would get stripped from the stock from the pressure/tension.

I would love to bring my M70 down and shoot with you guys, but it's not set up to shoot that way. Nor do I want to set it up that way, because that's not the purpose of the rifle. I'd love to see how it does at distances greater than the 300-yard range I have access to, but that would be my main interest for that rifle.

Just like a benchrest rifle would be unwieldy at best if we were to shoot a service rifle course of fire....

Just my thoughts on it.....goodness knows I'm the first one to champion higher quality optics, but I don't think most of us have need for or interest in mounting tactical or target scopes on our rifles that shoot typically at ranges under 200 yards.

[.30 HART]

Dwayne,

Keep in mind that probably the 99% of the time you get those answers, you're talking a hunting rifle that was not purchased with this type of shooting in mind.

My Zeiss on my Model 70 technically fits your description there, as it's a 3-9x40 and it's lacking target turrets. Yes, it is indexed for 1/4-minute clicks. No, it's not labeled to make adjustments for distance shooting more efficient, so you'd have to count the clicks.

It would take something on the order of an Act of God to provide me with a shot longer than 300 yards where I normally hunt. With this in mind, then, I can zero that rifle at 200, be close enough for hunting purposes at all ranges below 200, and have to hold about 6.5"-7" high at 300. If I flub the range estimate and only hold 5" high, I'm still only hitting 2" below desired point of impact, which is likely plenty good enough on a whitetail. I also have to go to the range on Sat. and determine the magnification setting where I can use the duplex reticle as my aiming point for 300. My old Leupold that was on the M70 let me dial it to 9x and the duplex point on the bottom vertical portion of the reticle was dead on for 300. With the Zeiss, I haven't tried that. So I'll figure that out at the range on Sat., and then I'll know it for hunting purposes.

Beyond that, I really have no need to mount a mil-dot or target scope on my hunting rifle. It'd kinda be like putting an M1907 sling on it, which I've considered doing, by the way. I happen to just like that sling. The odds of me being able to "sling up" for a hunting shot are remote at best, so it would serve no purpose other than I just like that sling. Plus, if I would get a good tight sling position, it's possible the sling swivel studs would get stripped from the stock from the pressure/tension.

I would love to bring my M70 down and shoot with you guys, but it's not set up to shoot that way. Nor do I want to set it up that way, because that's not the purpose of the rifle. I'd love to see how it does at distances greater than the 300-yard range I have access to, but that would be my main interest for that rifle.

Just like a benchrest rifle would be unwieldy at best if we were to shoot a service rifle course of fire....

Just my thoughts on it.....goodness knows I'm the first one to champion higher quality optics, but I don't think most of us have need for or interest in mounting tactical or target scopes on our rifles that shoot typically at ranges under 200 yards.
I would assume when a man phones me about shooting long range he like you is interested in doing it with his current rifle he hunts with. This being said my point is this....scopes are one of the main factors in taking shots beyond 300 yds. Within 300 holdover is usually acceptable with any good reliable deer caliber but past this holdover is not an exact science and wounding rates tend to climb.
Nikons 4.5-14 Buckmaster is a good example of a reasonably priced long range capable scope. I guess the point in this thread is to help anyone wanting help getting a scope capable of helping them go to the next level of shooting.

[mstarbird2000]

I think this is a really interesting tread. It kind of playing into my next purchase of a rifle. this question may have been asked but I have yet to find an answer. Currently I hunt with a .30-06 and have taken deer as close as 10 feet and moose as far as 350 yards. At 350 yards I think the old .30-06 is reaching its limits for a 1200 lb bull moose. So I am looking to puchace a rifle (probibly a .300 mag of some kind or another) that I can use on moose up to around 500-550 yards. Most moose hunting here takes place up north in logging terratory and some places have very long clear cuts. I also want to start some tagret shoot up to 750 yards. 1000 yard areas are almost non-existant any place I can shoot here in Maine at lease with out traveling 2 hrs each way. Most ranges don't have more than 200 yards and 350 is pretty rare.

So short of buying an Accuracy International or some custom wonder gun starting at $1500 and up, What would you recomend as a good multi purpose long range firearm and scope combination that isn't going to cost me over $6000+. if at all possible I would like to get it done for less than $1500 (rifle and scope). I have been toying with the idea of starting with a Savage FP 110 in .300 win or some weatherby vanguard platform, and a Leoplod scope 4-12x or somethng close anyway and build up from there. There is school in Texas I have been keeping an eye on and have thought about attending that will shoot out to 1000 yards so this would also be the rifle I would bring there.

So there is my predicament I need to find something rugged enought to go through the woods with and have the accuracy to reach way out there reliably.

[.30 HART]

We are having our 5th annual long range school at my place down here in March 09....
You are welcome to attend and yes I can help you get a rig to fill your requirements....pm coming your way

[tddeangelo]

mstarbird2000,

Conventional wisdom generally says that the .300 Win Mag is an '06 with another 100-150 yards of reach. Many think it is much more than that.

Considering the Hornady Light Mag loads for the '06 replicate "standard" loads for the .300WM with identical bullets, I think the "conventional wisdom" is pretty nearly on the mark. For example, 3000fps for a 165gr bullet is a pretty typical .300WM velocity. The Hornadg LM load I shoot does that as well, so I'm basically shooting a .300WM in a .30-06 package. If the difference were that substantial between the two, this wouldn't be possible.

Now if you want to go into the 180's or higher weights, then the 300 will shine, just like the '06 is equaled by the .308 for the most part until you go up into 165's/180's and higher.


Dwayne--

Not really disputing anything, and I see your point on why people need to look at their optics. I would be curious how my rifle would shoot, but I'd be unwilling to significantly change the setup just for that curiousity. I wouldn't need the equipment change for any other purpose, really.

I do like the concept of the Nikon BDC reticle. I looked at a Nikon Monarch with it, and I think I'm going to go that route when I get an inline muzzleloader....a Monarch with BDC. The concept is no different than that of multiple pins on a bow sight. I happen to use a bow sight that I calibrate and then adjust the single pin to the range I wish to shoot...not unlike a tactical scope on a long range rifle setup.

I've been focusing a LOT on my offhand shooting this year, so I'd be curious to work on my shooting on the bench and positional shooting as well. I may get down to your shooting seminar this time, although I have no rifle to really use that meets the criteria.

I'll happily shoot my iron-sighted rifles at 300 with you boys if you like.... =)

[Brembo]

Well you all will laugh at me, but oh well...

I don't know how to use turrets. Being self taught, I never had anyone sit down with me and show me how they function. The first scope I bought that featured turrets was a surplus scope and I could find no one at any retailer to tell me how they worked.

I could, however, find someone to zero my scope in at "X" range. From there I make my own adjustments. After years it just becomes nature to adjust my angle and trajectory myself and put the bullet in the target. Shooting buddies tell me its easier with turrets, but they ain't showing me eaither so I keep plowing away best I know how.

This is probably the biggest reason I prefer Sheperd scopes with the one-shot zero. I can sight them in myself and use them as I always have any of the other scopes. Some day I'll learn how turrets work. Til then I'll keep hitting the 500 yard shot and watching my buddies scratch their heads while they dial in they $2000 dollar sniper rigs.

[.30 HART]

mstarbird2000,

Conventional wisdom generally says that the .300 Win Mag is an '06 with another 100-150 yards of reach. Many think it is much more than that.

Considering the Hornady Light Mag loads for the '06 replicate "standard" loads for the .300WM with identical bullets, I think the "conventional wisdom" is pretty nearly on the mark. For example, 3000fps for a 165gr bullet is a pretty typical .300WM velocity. The Hornadg LM load I shoot does that as well, so I'm basically shooting a .300WM in a .30-06 package. If the difference were that substantial between the two, this wouldn't be possible.

Now if you want to go into the 180's or higher weights, then the 300 will shine, just like the '06 is equaled by the .308 for the most part until you go up into 165's/180's and higher.


Dwayne--

Not really disputing anything, and I see your point on why people need to look at their optics. I would be curious how my rifle would shoot, but I'd be unwilling to significantly change the setup just for that curiousity. I wouldn't need the equipment change for any other purpose, really.

I do like the concept of the Nikon BDC reticle. I looked at a Nikon Monarch with it, and I think I'm going to go that route when I get an inline muzzleloader....a Monarch with BDC. The concept is no different than that of multiple pins on a bow sight. I happen to use a bow sight that I calibrate and then adjust the single pin to the range I wish to shoot...not unlike a tactical scope on a long range rifle setup.

I've been focusing a LOT on my offhand shooting this year, so I'd be curious to work on my shooting on the bench and positional shooting as well. I may get down to your shooting seminar this time, although I have no rifle to really use that meets the criteria.

I'll happily shoot my iron-sighted rifles at 300 with you boys if you like.... =)
Most guys dont bring a rifle as we have plenty down here for them to shoot. It would be great if you could make it I would enjoy that.

[.30 HART]

Well you all will laugh at me, but oh well...

I don't know how to use turrets. Being self taught, I never had anyone sit down with me and show me how they function. The first scope I bought that featured turrets was a surplus scope and I could find no one at any retailer to tell me how they worked.

I could, however, find someone to zero my scope in at "X" range. From there I make my own adjustments. After years it just becomes nature to adjust my angle and trajectory myself and put the bullet in the target. Shooting buddies tell me its easier with turrets, but they ain't showing me eaither so I keep plowing away best I know how.

This is probably the biggest reason I prefer Sheperd scopes with the one-shot zero. I can sight them in myself and use them as I always have any of the other scopes. Some day I'll learn how turrets work. Til then I'll keep hitting the 500 yard shot and watching my buddies scratch their heads while they dial in they $2000 dollar sniper rigs.

Call me sometime....anytime ........now even.......and I will have you understanding the use of those turrets in 5 minutes flat.....18033618068...Dwayne
Hows that for service.....smile

[doubleA]

Mstarbird2000, is the school in Texas you speak of Tac Pro Shooting Center just west of Dallas/Ft Worth. I have given thoughts of attending that one someday. They are the Accuracy International importers for the US.

[.30 HART]

Sounds like a good one to attend....whats it run...i may be interested in it also

[Mark]

I doubt if equipment is the entire answer.

There is also the little factor of reading the wind. This has NEVER been well explained, but it involves putting clicks on for wind at the firing line, then reading the mirage and holding off for the wind down range.
A fellow just has to shoot to learn how to do this.

Usually a fellow is just concerned with getting technique correct at 600 yards, he just can't deal with the factor of wind. Tell him to put on 15 MOA elevation from the 200 yard zero, then 4 MOA, give or take, for what ever wind is blowing, and he is on the paper. God bless this fellow, but he isn't a long range shooter. 600 yards is considered mid-range, you have to step back to 800, 900, or 1000 to shoot long range.

I don't want to be 7 days of rain, but I think the answer may be to make a fellow outrageously successful at 300, then, after that move back to 600. There is more to mid-range and long range than putting on wind and elevation dope that someone tells you.
Mark

[.30 HART]

I doubt if equipment is the entire answer.

There is also the little factor of reading the wind. This has NEVER been well explained, but it involves putting clicks on for wind at the firing line, then reading the mirage and holding off for the wind down range.
A fellow just has to shoot to learn how to do this.

Usually a fellow is just concerned with getting technique correct at 600 yards, he just can't deal with the factor of wind. Tell him to put on 15 MOA elevation from the 200 yard zero, then 4 MOA, give or take, for what ever wind is blowing, and he is on the paper. God bless this fellow, but he isn't a long range shooter. 600 yards is considered mid-range, you have to step back to 800, 900, or 1000 to shoot long range.

I don't want to be 7 days of rain, but I think the answer may be to make a fellow outrageously successful at 300, then, after that move back to 600. There is more to mid-range and long range than putting on wind and elevation dope that someone tells you.
Mark
I agree with you 100% about not discussing wind as much as it should be discussed but for the longest ive just tried to get a quality conversation about long range in general without an argument. Things are getting a lot better on that end but there is so much to talk about.
Also I agree with the get them on at 300 and then move out from there. Most guys will never shoot past 5-600 yds and as you know these shots are doable for a guy that takes his shooting seriously.
The point to this thread is that you must first have the optics with the mechanics to do it. By this I mean a scope with adjustable/dependable turrets....once a guy has this then he can get really serious about making some of these longer shots. Again there are after market turrets for a lot of popular scopes out there so if you have a quality scope then you may be able to just install turrets and be off and running.
Mark rarely do I mention shots past 6-800 yds because as you say it is getting long by then....i would just like to help some guys get to 5-600 with confidence and they will have the ability to take it from there.

[mstarbird2000]

Mstarbird2000, is the school in Texas you speak of Tac Pro Shooting Center just west of Dallas/Ft Worth. I have given thoughts of attending that one someday. They are the Accuracy International importers for the US.

Yes that is them. I found them when I was considering buying an A.I. rifle. That Pipe dream is over now. No way I am dropping that much cash on a rifle anytime soon!!! Though you don't need a A.I. to take the persision rifle course. I talked with .30Hart today and he and a friend of his gave me something to to think about, and a place much close to start out with for long distance.

[Mark]

I have never put windage and elevation on in a hunting situation. It has always been a quick range estimation, then the shot. I guess I would rather have the time to set up the shot on a guess, than to know exactly what the yardage is, then have to rush the shot.

Even at mid to long range, game just seems to be on the move. I guess I don't hunt the same places the outdoor writers do.
Mark

[.30 HART]

I have never put windage and elevation on in a hunting situation. It has always been a quick range estimation, then the shot. I guess I would rather have the time to set up the shot on a guess, than to know exactly what the yardage is, then have to rush the shot.

Even at mid to long range, game just seems to be on the move. I guess I don't hunt the same places the outdoor writers do.
Mark

I have dialed in animals many times while hunting.......I am usually set up over a large agricultural area and have the ability to have already ranged most landmarks in the area...by doing this I am typically ready to make the shot within a few seconds if need be.
I have used this method all over this country and abroad and it works quite well. I havent been forunate enough to have hunted where the animals stand and pose either.
Ranging and dialing isnt as efficient while stalking about but it can be done you will just need a solid rest that can be deployed rapidly. This is not always possible so I will continue to set up where I can see as much real estate as possible and do my best to deliver a precision shot at the animal or target I choose.

[beretzs]

Dialing target turrets is no harder than adjusting dope on an M16A2 service rifle. Any of the Marines on here can vouch for me on this. Once your rifle is zeroed at the 300 yard line, you have two zero's, a battlesight zero and then seperate zeros for rifle range baloney. In combat, a Marine, or a soldier shooting the regular iron sights uses a 300 battlesight zero. That is one setting on the rear sight 8/3.. Meaning the rifle will hit within a mans torso from zero to 300 meters. If you were to take a longer shot, and KNEW the distance, and say it was 400meters, you would move your rear sight to the 4. Then you are zeroed for 400 meters. I am not making light of any of the this, and we as Marines and other services now use a 4x scope (ACOG). This is again zeroed at 100m, and there are stadia wires (similar to the B&C reticle system). This will allow you a first round hit from 0 to 300 on a man size target. If they are further, you simply use the corresponding line for the range you are trying to kill the tgt in. Both the scope and iron sight system are very near what everyone thinks of the PBR system. It works really well for alot of us.

Snipers, use a scope zeroed at 100 meters, with a scope with target turrets and Mil Dots. Reason being is this, if you are shooting quickly, you know what mil dot is which (because of practice) and you can quickly put the correct mil dot on the target both elevation and windage. If you have the time, and know exactly where your target is going to be, you adjust your scope for a first shot impact. They both work, and both have applications in the field.

I wouldn't jump on 30 Hart so much about long range shooting. Almost all of our deer rifles we use nowadays will shoot out to 600 pretty easily (270, 308, 3006, 280, and the mags). We use 308's all the way out to 1000. Most any man, can sit down behind a scope with mil dots and target turrets and figure it out in 15-30 minutes. It is really pretty easy. I think of it like this, if you have time to pull out a set of range finders and laser ID a target, you have 5 more seconds to spin the dials to put you BALLS on. It is not a major operation.

I don't have one scope on my hunting rifles with tgt turrets, or Mil Dots. I don't shoot over 400 yards with my rifles at game. Pretty much most of my rifles can be zeroed at 300, and hit center mass with a top of the back hold. I do like the scopes, and know their utility, I just have not bought one yet. Quit giving 30 HART a ration of crap, he is offering to assist guys at hitting longer, plus, if you can hit long, you can easily make the regular 200-300 yard shots. If nobody wants to take him up, don't scare others who may be on the fence about it. It is all about learning. Sorry for my long post, but I think 30HART is doing most hunters a service by offering up some range time. Heck, most of us don't get to shoot near as much as we would like to! Scotty

[.30 HART]

Dialing target turrets is no harder than adjusting dope on an M16A2 service rifle. Any of the Marines on here can vouch for me on this. Once your rifle is zeroed at the 300 yard line, you have two zero's, a battlesight zero and then seperate zeros for rifle range baloney. In combat, a Marine, or a soldier shooting the regular iron sights uses a 300 battlesight zero. That is one setting on the rear sight 8/3.. Meaning the rifle will hit within a mans torso from zero to 300 meters. If you were to take a longer shot, and KNEW the distance, and say it was 400meters, you would move your rear sight to the 4. Then you are zeroed for 400 meters. I am not making light of any of the this, and we as Marines and other services now use a 4x scope (ACOG). This is again zeroed at 100m, and there are stadia wires (similar to the B&C reticle system). This will allow you a first round hit from 0 to 300 on a man size target. If they are further, you simply use the corresponding line for the range you are trying to kill the tgt in. Both the scope and iron sight system are very near what everyone thinks of the PBR system. It works really well for alot of us.

Snipers, use a scope zeroed at 100 meters, with a scope with target turrets and Mil Dots. Reason being is this, if you are shooting quickly, you know what mil dot is which (because of practice) and you can quickly put the correct mil dot on the target both elevation and windage. If you have the time, and know exactly where your target is going to be, you adjust your scope for a first shot impact. They both work, and both have applications in the field.

I wouldn't jump on 30 Hart so much about long range shooting. Almost all of our deer rifles we use nowadays will shoot out to 600 pretty easily (270, 308, 3006, 280, and the mags). We use 308's all the way out to 1000. Most any man, can sit down behind a scope with mil dots and target turrets and figure it out in 15-30 minutes. It is really pretty easy. I think of it like this, if you have time to pull out a set of range finders and laser ID a target, you have 5 more seconds to spin the dials to put you BALLS on. It is not a major operation.

I don't have one scope on my hunting rifles with tgt turrets, or Mil Dots. I don't shoot over 400 yards with my rifles at game. Pretty much most of my rifles can be zeroed at 300, and hit center mass with a top of the back hold. I do like the scopes, and know their utility, I just have not bought one yet. Quit giving 30 HART a ration of crap, he is offering to assist guys at hitting longer, plus, if you can hit long, you can easily make the regular 200-300 yard shots. If nobody wants to take him up, don't scare others who may be on the fence about it. It is all about learning. Sorry for my long post, but I think 30HART is doing most hunters a service by offering up some range time. Heck, most of us don't get to shoot near as much as we would like to! Scotty
I have basically given up discussing long range work on here as it always ends in argument.....those that know me know I will help anyone I can and learn from anyone who can teach me. Shooting is my passion and I love to help others extend their range if I can....anyway I sent you a PM
Let those who choose to limit themselves and their equipment do what they do as it makes them happy and for those of us that like to stretch it on out there we should keep on keeping on. How else is this industry going to grow??? How much R and D is required to get a rifle to hit and cleanly kill an animal at 1-200 yds....not much
Scopes, ammo, rifles, triggers etc etc are leaps and bounds ahead of where they were just 10 yrs ago.......is it because people just want a mediocre rifle capable of mediocre accuracy at short range.........i dont think so
The long range enthusiast are helping the industry grow exponentionally (sp?).....how many mil-dot,ballistic plex, or other range finding scopes were readily available to the public just a few years ago......very few
Ill just keep n doing what I do and doing it well............BANG........wait.......wait....... flop!!!!!! yall have a goodun

[beretzs]

Dwaayne, your good by me. I think most of it is people want to say exactly the opposite of what somebody else is saying, just to get a rise out of folks. Long range shooting is pretty fun, and killing at range has its benefits also. You are right about equipment availability, you can buy some really good stuff, that was only seen in military armories a few years ago. Now you can buy the same things from Cabelas. The laser rangefinder is a pretty good example. Not too long ago, artilleryman and snipers only had them. Now anybody can buy a "decent" one for a few hundred bucks. Keep shooting, I wanna link up sometime when I am back in the states. I am pretty sure we could figure something decent to talk about! Scotty

[jfinch]

I understand if you have a rifle set up and it is dependable not wanting to mess with it. I wouldn't but if I am setting up a new one I try to match the scope to the capabilities of the rifle. It the rifle is capable o making a 500+ yard shot so should the scope. When I set up my LTR in 300 SAUM I selected a Buckmaster 4.5-14 with the BDC because it should be capable to allow the rifle to stretch its legs but was within the limited budget I had to work with after buying the rifle. 30 Hart I am interested to hear your ideas on scopes for longer shots.

[.30 HART]

Dwaayne, your good by me. I think most of it is people want to say exactly the opposite of what somebody else is saying, just to get a rise out of folks. Long range shooting is pretty fun, and killing at range has its benefits also. You are right about equipment availability, you can buy some really good stuff, that was only seen in military armories a few years ago. Now you can buy the same things from Cabelas. The laser rangefinder is a pretty good example. Not too long ago, artilleryman and snipers only had them. Now anybody can buy a "decent" one for a few hundred bucks. Keep shooting, I wanna link up sometime when I am back in the states. I am pretty sure we could figure something decent to talk about! Scotty

Where exactly is midway park NC

[.30 HART]

I understand if you have a rifle set up and it is dependable not wanting to mess with it. I wouldn't but if I am setting up a new one I try to match the scope to the capabilities of the rifle. It the rifle is capable o making a 500+ yard shot so should the scope. When I set up my LTR in 300 SAUM I selected a Buckmaster 4.5-14 with the BDC because it should be capable to allow the rifle to stretch its legs but was within the limited budget I had to work with after buying the rifle. 30 Hart I am interested to hear your ideas on scopes for longer shots.

I would love to talk to you about scopes and there uses for long range.....fire away....

[beretzs]

Where exactly is midway park NC

It is directly out the front gate of Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune. I live about 10 miles away from the main gate. Jacksonville is the nearest place found on the map. Scotty

[.30 HART]

It is directly out the front gate of Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune. I live about 10 miles away from the main gate. Jacksonville is the nearest place found on the map. Scotty

so you are just down the road from Saigon Sams pawn shop huh??????

[beretzs]

30HART, I have a 300 Win Mag that is pretty accurate, like under 1" at 100 yards pretty consistently. Right now, I have a 3x9-40 Leupold on it, what would be an affordable scope to try? I may try it with the 300. I could push the 3x9 to my son's rifle. Also, what would the scope allow me realistically to shoot up to? Scotty

[beretzs]

so you are just down the road from Saigon Sams pawn shop huh??????

I live East on the 24, towards Hubert or Swansboro. Saigon Sams (Jacksonville) is about 6 miles or so away from my house. I haven't been there since I went to SOI in 1996. Had to replace a canteen I lost during training. Scotty

[.30 HART]

30HART, I have a 300 Win Mag that is pretty accurate, like under 1" at 100 yards pretty consistently. Right now, I have a 3x9-40 Leupold on it, what would be an affordable scope to try? I may try it with the 300. I could push the 3x9 to my son's rifle. Also, what would the scope allow me realistically to shoot up to? Scotty

4.5-14 Nikon Buckmaster with turrets.....this should take you to 5-600 with little or no problem....using factory loads (premium)....a little further if you load your own

[jfinch]

30 Hart,

I have the Buckmaster 4.5-14 you recommended to Beretzs. But you mention Turrets. The standard turrets on mine are finger adjustable but not resettable that I am aware of. I have seen target turrets that are for the Monarchs with 1/4" adjustments. Do you know if they will work with the buckmaster?

[browningx44x]

hey d what is the date of the shoot?

[.30 HART]

hey d what is the date of the shoot?

I was informed not to discuss the shoot on the forum. Feel free to call me if you have any questions.

[Ralphbf]

I just purchased a new Model 12FV varmiter with a 1 in 12 twist.

I need to purchase rings and a scope, but $299.99 is a little more than I can spend right now.

Is there anything around $100.00 that will work?

Barska Varmint Rifle Scope 6-24x 42mm

Tasco Varmint Rifle Scope 6-24x 42mm

BSA Contender Mil-Dot Target Rifle Scope 6-24x 40mm

I don't see myself shooting over 400 yards, at least at this time.

Ralph

[C. Schutte]

I just purchased a new Model 12FV varmiter with a 1 in 12 twist.

I need to purchase rings and a scope, but $299.99 is a little more than I can spend right now.

Is there anything around $100.00 that will work?

Barska Varmint Rifle Scope 6-24x 42mm

Tasco Varmint Rifle Scope 6-24x 42mm

BSA Contender Mil-Dot Target Rifle Scope 6-24x 40mm

I don't see myself shooting over 400 yards, at least at this time.

Ralph




Ralph,

Shelling out no more than $100.00 on rings and a scope, especially a 6x24x42 is a colossal waste of money. Cheap scopes are cheap for a reason and you would be far better off waiting a while and investing just a little more on a dependable scope. You don't have to spend a fortune but you do have to at least obtain a level of dependability that you are not going to have at what you intend to spend.

Scopes have to do only two things. One is they have to be clear and bright and the other is that they must hold their zero under recoil. The latter they must do absolutely and the other comes in degrees.

You are going to hear a bunch of replies from people on this forum stating how their pile of Trashsco works just fine and sure, some do. Most get returned. Some guys will keep on buying a new pile of garbage every year or two and say, "well, when this goes bad I only paid 80 bucks!" The truth is that they spend that several times and they never have a dependable scope, or tight groups. These same guys are the ones that show up every year to the range one week before deer season, fire about 20 rounds down line within 10 minutes making adjustments after every shot and once finally hitting close to the bulls eye they exclaim, "that will do it" and they are off to the lease. Hitting close to the bulls eye is really a matter of chance. They couldn't repeat that last shot if their life depended on it.

Save up a little and put a Nikon Buckmaster on that rifle. That is a very reasonably priced scope that offers plenty of value and is backed by a company that enjoys a great reputation. Even better, upgrade your optics and you'll notice that you don't need 24 power due to the superior optics. Think quality over quantity. chs

[rooster52]

I bought a Simmons 44MAG 6-20X44 from EBAY for 100 dollars and it is working great. This is a good scope for the money.I have fired more than 2000 round from my 243 and the scope has stayed accurate and the clarity is great.

[Ralphbf]

I also shoot a Raging Bull in 454.

I kept breaking scopes. Tasco, Weaver and then I purchased a 4 power Nikon.

I know the difference in brightness and clairity the Nikon brings to the game.
I even shot tighter groups a 50 yards with the Nikon. This is still a mystery to me.

I was just hoping that with the low recoil that the less expencive scopes would work out.

I have a Fitco 6x24 on my 17hmr. It's not very good but it holds.

Some how $600.00 for the rifle and $300.00 for the glass just doesn't seem right.

.................... Ralph ....

[Mark]

No it doesn't seem right, but....

How about this? $600 for a Leupold 4.5-14, $110 for a base with 25 degrees of elevation built in, $30 for a set of steel rings, and $80 for the fancy Leupold aluminum scope caps. This is real pain.

It just depends on your perspective.
Mark

[Lodiman]

Yo Ralphie, I like my Burris better than my son's BSA'a, but we have 3 BSA scopes, between 4 and 6 years old, all have been used by young hunters and subject to rough usage(you should see how we beat the brush) and a lot of bouncing around in trucks and all 3 still function flawlessly. I have had onesimmons which was junk within a month, one tasco which was junk but after several years, and a kmart(tasco produced I think) which was junk right away too. I do Have a Titan(tasco) which is from around 1990 and that scope is as good or better than my Burris or a friend's nikon which I looked through. It has functioned flawessly. So, I think it is a good idea to get a good scope. However, if you can't afford one, look at a BSA, Bushnell Banner, or one of hte other cheaper brands. It will probably function fine but won't have the clarity a more expensive scope will have. It's a trade off.

[C. Schutte]

I also shoot a Raging Bull in 454.

I kept breaking scopes. Tasco, Weaver and then I purchased a 4 power Nikon.

I know the difference in brightness and clairity the Nikon brings to the game.
I even shot tighter groups a 50 yards with the Nikon. This is still a mystery to me.

I was just hoping that with the low recoil that the less expencive scopes would work out.

I have a Fitco 6x24 on my 17hmr. It's not very good but it holds.

Some how $600.00 for the rifle and $300.00 for the glass just doesn't seem right.

.................... Ralph ....



Ralph,

It's no mystery. The tigher groups from the Nikon was due to that scope actually holding Zero. The cheaper scopes only marginally held until they broke. Holding zero is not something acceptable in degrees. A scope that actually works is a must on any priced rifle.

Question for you; did Tasco and Weaver honor their warranty? If they did would you feel good about putting one of them back on your 454 and leave on a hunt?

300 may seem a lot for a scope now. Go get yourself spoiled by looking through some scopes that have truly sharp optics and low light ability and then 300 will seem cheap. You just have to have equipment that works. What good is the rifle without the scope? Good luck..........chs

[Ralphbf]

The Tasco I still have I never bothered to send it in.
The WeaverI sent it back to where I bought it twice.
The 3rd time I sent it in I upgraded to the Nikkon.

I checked my card and I have about $400.00 I can spend.
Scope mount and bullets.

The place that has treated me so good is out of stock until the 19th.
I pick up my rifle on the 23rd.

Well it is almost my Birthday.

It seems everyone is out of this scope.

I'd like to get the Mil Dot version

[ssmith]

What is the best scope for 1000YD shooting? I have a 30Hart with a 6.5-20x40 Leupold on it . I was thinking about a 8.5-25x50 Leupold as i have many Leupold and never had to send one back. What would you put on it? The Leupold is about $1000 i could spend a little more if i had to.

[Ralphbf]

30 HART

Can you give honerable mention to a few more scopes?

Are you a Mil Dot fan?

[mainedeersniper]

ive been looking at getting a bushnell banner 6-24x40mm mil dot for my new .22-250. But i might just get a leupold 3-9 cause i wont be shooting past 250yards.

[ssmith]

WELL IF IT'S NOT BROKEN DON'T FIX IT! Thats why i only have Leupold so far, but i would like to use the 30Hart for 1000Yd or more shooting. I am willing to try another brand. I live close to the williamsport PA 1000 yard club have never been there but i plan to visit this spring. Maybe they could help me with a scope selection. As for Mil Dot no i have not used one yet. Maybe this new scope will be .

PS how do you use spellcheck on this Forum?

[Ralphbf]

Anyone know anything about Vector scopes?

It looked pretty good at the gun show.

I think it was a 4 x 18.

It has 2 turrets andside focus.

Ralph