.54 cal or .50 cal?

[eureka]

Looking to buy my first muzzleloader later this spring, or early summer. I have decided to stick with 1850's available technology, and am going with the cap lock. I like the Hawken style, but may consider something else. (recommendations?) I am leaning towards .54 cal, but haven't completely decided yet. I hunt mule deer and elk in Utah. I don't want to go with sabots (no sabots in the 1800's right?). I don't want to be undergunned for elk, but don't want to blow big holes in deer. What do you folks recommend?

[HAIKU_RODNEY]

I have a 50 cal. flintlock and shoot round balls. From everything I have read, if I were going to shoot round balls for hunting, I would choose the 54 cal. This is because of the rate at which round balls shed velocity. You get better energy levels with the 54 than the 50.

[eureka]

Thanks!

Next question is Cabelas Hawken, or Lyman Deer Stalker?

[OhioDeerHunter]

My dad had the same dilemma some years ago when choosing a muzzleloader, he went with the .54. And has regretted it since, the ammo is much harder to come by than the more common .50 and sometimes more expensive.

[biliff]

With elk on the menu, go with the .54.

[for-ccw]

I` agree with ohiohunter as to the supply of 54 roundballs. here in ohio its the 50 cal. also agree with biliff, 54 cal. for elk. think i would check availability of ammo in your area and if i were elk hunting and 54`s were no problem to get,thats how i`d go. my .02cents

[turkeyhuntr]

I can't comment on the Cabelas Hawken but I have a Lyman Deer Stalker and so does a friend of mine. I have not had any real problems with it or has my friend that I know of. Accuracy has been good at 50yds. but not as good at 100 which may be me and not the rifle. I'm not sure with Black Powder but the barrel length is shorter than some rifles and that may affect velocity so if Elk is on the menu you may want to look at somethink else. As far as caliber goes I agree prety much what has all ready been stated.

[rooster52]

With all the bullets availlable today ,there is really no advantage of the 54 over the 50 cal,unless you will be shooting round ball.
I have a 54 cal T/C Renegade and shoot round ball only out of it.
Like was said,54 cal bullets are getting a little harder to find.

[Cabela's Moderator]

Cabela's carries some very nice traditional smokepoles made by Davide Pedersoli in Italy. I have a .50 sporterized Hawken that I enjoy, but here's another curve I'll throw at you. One of my superiors uses a .58-caliber Hawken he's dressed up like one used by the Mountain Men of old. He calls it "Bertha". Anything he shoots with it inside 100 yards from whitetail to moose "just tips over." He took it on a moose hunt in Canada and the guide was skeptical, having never had a client use a muzzleloader before. They found a moose, Bertha tipped it over and the guide said he'd never seen anything like it. Downside is that .58-cal is seriously a 100-yard gun with open sights. Beyond that the trajectory is like a bowling ball. You get a fairly decent and straight shot to 100 yards with a good charge, but even pushing it to 120 or 130 would be questionable.

Dan
Forum Moderator

[rooster52]

wow it has been a while since I heard anything of the 58 cal! Good to know it has not been forgoten.

I too had a Cabelas traditional Hawkens left hand 50 cal. Took my first few muzzleloader whitetails with that rifle.

[biliff]

wow it has been a while since I heard anything of the 58 cal! Good to know it has not been forgoten

Far from dead, at least out here in Oregon. For muzzleloader hunts, we're not allowed anything but PRB or plain lead slugs that can't be any more than 1 1/2X bore diameter in length. .54's and .58's are still quite popular and you can pick up the necessaries at most sporting goods stores.

[eureka]

Cabela's carries some very nice traditional smokepoles made by Davide Pedersoli in Italy.
Dan
Forum Moderator

Dan, I had a salesman at Cabelas in Lehi Utah tell me the Cabelas Hawken was made by T/C, I have seen articles on the internet that say they are made by Investarms, and now you say Pedersoli.

Which is true? Does Cabelas get them from all of these manufacturers?

[eureka]

.58 Huh?

Didn't consider it because everything seems to be .50 or .54

If .54 stuff is hard to find, I can imagine .58

I think I'll go with the .54 if I can find one, .50 or .58 if a sweet deal I can't refuse comes along.

Thanks for all your comments and help.

But can someone help with the brand dilema? Is there really that much difference in quality? I don't want to go with the new synthetic stock modern in-lines. Why bother? I want to go with a caplock, possibly a flintlock if I find a great deal.

[biliff]

possibly a flintlock if I find a great deal.

If you go flintlock, make sure you have a supply of real BP. The substitutes won't work very well in a rock lock.

[plentywood]

eureka,

I have a couple of TC Hawkens, caplock in .54 caliber. Ver happy with them. They shoot both round balls and maxis equally as well.

[creteham]

If you're worried about bullets, I'd get a RB mould and a Maxi-Ball mould in the caliber you're interested in and run your own ball! Had a .50 Cabela's Hawken and loved it. I now use a Cabela's Hawken .45 Lefty, and it's my favorite rifle, BP or "modern." Cheap to shoot, and can blast away all day and not get beat to death! Just gotta get REAL close sometimes. Several whitetails, many coyotes, and even a few ferrel cats out to 100+ yards with patched round balls. Shoots Maxi's equally well, with the right load. Probably a little light for elk, bear, etc., though. Big thing is practice! Know the rifle, know your skill, and SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT! After you've created enough smoke to cause "global cooling," and figured out what you and the rifle can do, putting meat in the skillet shouldn't be a problem with a .50, .54, or whatever.

My $1.38 (.02 plus tax) worth,

Creteham

[eureka]

Thanks. Now the tricky part, finding one for a good price. Would like new, but not sure my wife will go for the $400 price tag.

Does it make more sense to get the starter kit that you can get at Cabelas, or to buy individual balls, powder, patches, cleaning stuff, etc.....?

[BigOL3]

Looking to buy my first muzzleloader later this spring, or early summer. I have decided to stick with 1850's available technology, and am going with the cap lock. I like the Hawken style, but may consider something else. (recommendations?) I am leaning towards .54 cal, but haven't completely decided yet. I hunt mule deer and elk in Utah. I don't want to go with sabots (no sabots in the 1800's right?). I don't want to be undergunned for elk, but don't want to blow big holes in deer. What do you folks recommend?Recommendation: Get a T/C, excellent quality with life time warranty. I am not sure if they still make the Renegade, but they are a very fine shooting gun. They are similar to a Hawkens, but more sportized, with less 'flash'. I would definitely go with the .54. I have a 50 and 54 and have NEVER had a problem getting ammo. I use the Maxi-ball, for which the Renegade is best suited. T/C also make those, along with other brands. They can be bought a Walmart around here, and I am sure Cabelas has them also.

My dad had the same dilemma some years ago when choosing a muzzleloader, he went with the .54. And has regretted it since, the ammo is much harder to come by than the more common .50 and sometimes more expensive.The maxi-ball is readily available most everywhere.

With all the bullets availlable today ,there is really no advantage of the 54 over the 50 cal,unless you will be shooting round ball.
I have a 54 cal T/C Renegade and shoot round ball only out of it.
Like was said,54 cal bullets are getting a little harder to find.
See above. The Renegade was designed for maxiball use, and they are readily available.

[for-ccw]

Eureka, as posted before by both OhioDeerHunter and myself "54 cal. ammo is not readily available in Ohio". its not impossible to get just not as available as 50cal. again my advice between 50 ,54 or 58 cal. would be to see whats READILY available in your area cause whatever cal. you choose you will be probably trying alot of different bullet configurations to get best one for your rifle. FYI in Ohio 58cal. is all but impossible to find. most 58er`s here cast their own.goodluck

[rooster52]

You can find T/C Renegades used for a very resonable price,just check them out good before you buy one.They are excellent shooters.I have one in 54 cal,and shoot round ball.It has done a good job on Michigan whitetails.

[buckconner]

Dan, I had a salesman at Cabelas in Lehi Utah tell me the Cabelas Hawken was made by T/C, I have seen articles on the internet that say they are made by Investarms, and now you say Pedersoli.

Which is true? Does Cabelas get them from all of these manufacturers?

The Cabelas Hawkin is not made by T/C, different breech plug design along with other small details, I would think that Investarms is closer than even Pedersoli. There are several in Italy that build guns for several different companies like Cabelas. The real problem comes when you need parts and then its a guessing game as to who made what.

You didn't talk to me or Craig at Lehi, we have a few new kids that need to ask the more experienced Outfitters about such things.

[buckconner]

As for .50 cal. to .62 or .75 cal., they are all good choices, shoot them all and each has a special use. For a good all around deer caliber a .50 is hard to beat but still is capable of killing elk and is probably a little cheaper to shoot. Then there's the .54 (28 gauge), .58 (.24 gauge), .62 (20 gauge) and a .75 (12 gauge) guns.

The .54 cal. has a little better mass for breaking down bone and meat but will cost more to shoot.

A .58 cal. has good mass for breaking down bone and meat too and cost more to shoot.

A .62 cal. (my favorite) for breaking bone and meat but can be expensive to shoot as is the .75 cal. These two I use for buffalo hunting at close range, the .62 1st and the .75 if needed for a fast 2nd shot.

As far as having problems finding supplies in Ohio you guys need to go to Lodi, OH "Log Cabin Sports Shop" they carry anything you'll need now in its 28th or 29th year at the same location. You can find them on the Internet.

[for-ccw]

thanks buck for info. on supplies in Ohio. will check them out as buddy loves his 58 cal.

[jcat]

Dan, I had a salesman at Cabelas in Lehi Utah tell me the Cabelas Hawken was made by T/C, I have seen articles on the internet that say they are made by Investarms, and now you say Pedersoli.

Which is true? Does Cabelas get them from all of these manufacturers?


eureka,

Dan is referring to a different line of black powder rifles than you are. Yes, "Cabelas brand" does have multiple manufactures producing private label rifles for them. I cannot confirm 100% the hawkin is TC but I think it is(It has been 10 years since I sold them). They also have the pedersoli in more upper end traditional lines.

J

[Rich M]

I have a .58 caliber and it is hard to get components. .54 is a little more popular.

Components will be easiest to get in the .50 caliber bracket. You don't need to shoot round balls - they had bullets back then too. The bullets would probably pattern better and be more fitting for elk...

[rooster52]

What cal. 50 or 54 for elk? Going to Colorado for an elk hunt ,plan on taking my 50 cal. Knight but taking my 54 Renegade along just in case I want it . What one does better for elk?
Using 348 Powerbelts in the 50 and 425 Hornady great Plains in the 54.
Accuracy is very close to the same.

[Browning28]

The Cabela’s Traditional and Sporterized Hawken Rifles are manufactured by Investarm.

[DblLung]

I am a clumsy fool who drops stuff and forgets stuff at home. For me its 50 cal or noughting. I can get what ever I need anywhere. Cabelas may be the only place around here that has anything but 45 and 50 cal stuff.

[eureka]

Thanks Gentlemen,

.54 ammo doesn't seem to be a problem, I noticed there are many websites that sell it, and I could probably get it through Cabelas. The nearest Cabelas is about 50 miles away. .50 seems to be more popular, but there are plenty of elk hunters here that want .54

Uncle George's stimulus check just may get that .54 cal smoke pole in my hands soon.

[eureka]

Well, its started. I got my muzzleloader yesterday, a T/C Hawken .54 cal percussion cap. Bought it used, no accessories, so now the fun begins. Thanks to all for your information and advice.

[green77hunter]

So same question as above: Looking to buy my first muzzleloader later this spring, or early summer. I have decided to stick with 1850's available technology, and am going with the cap lock. I like the Hawken style, but may consider something else. (recommendations?) I am leaning towards .54 cal, but haven't completely decided yet. I hunt mule deer and elk in Utah. I don't want to go with sabots (no sabots in the 1800's right?). I don't want to be undergunned for elk, but don't want to blow big holes in deer. What do you folks recommend?

BUT... using newer muzzleloader technology. Traditions FireArm style gun, different sabots.

To sum this one up... will one caliber gun (hopefully a .50 cal) work for both whitetail and elk regardless of ammo??

[Rich M]

My dad had the same delimma many years ago and he went as big as he could. I now have 3 .58 caliber muzzleloaders that are hard to find bullets for - patches & roundballs are a big NO for me.

I decided that since I like to be able to get supplies locally, that I would get a .50 caliber. I have one and can get supplies just about anywhere.

If you can kill most any animal in the world with a .50 caliber muzzleloader. Elk don't stand a chance.

[ColtWKnight]

Yup, a 50 caliber will kill anything in North America.

[oledeadeye]

if you decide to go with a 50 cal i have a brand new one i won at a sci conv. i really have no use for. if you want more info let me know

[green77hunter]

Please send information to my contact email under my profile.

[luie b]

54 cal would be excellent in your situation. I've seen a video on the internet where the guy shot a musket with a .75 cal ball. It made a hole the size of a nickel. A .54 would not be too much at all.

[luie b]

Buy the 54. When hunting elk use conicals but when hunting deer use roundball because a round ball only makes a hole the size of the ball.

[DinkKiller]

Buy the 54. When hunting elk use conicals but when hunting deer use roundball because a round ball only makes a hole the size of the ball.


I've owned a 50, a 54 and a 58. The 58 was a novelty toy. The 54 Remington was a decent gun, but it doesn't kill ant better than the 50. Stick with the 50.