powder or pellets

[jess1]

what do you guys prefer for hunting? i like triple 7 ffg...110 grains is my preferred load in my knight revolution rifle,when hunting and on the range this powder works well for me.

[BowhuntinSomthin]

150 grains triple 7powder is what I use. I dont like the pellets because you can crush them when seating the bullet.

[blkdia]

150 grains triple 7powder is what I use. I dont like the pellets because you can crush them when seating the bullet.

I like the pellets (which I invented 30 years ago) I was sitting about 20 feet up a big ole oak tree, shot a buck with my hawken .50, went to reload with FFG, 120 grains, wind was about 25 mph, started to pour the powder down the barrel, gust of wind hit, and I might have gotten 50 grains in it. Immediate thought, someone needs to figure out a way to bind this stuff together! I was just a farm boy, assumed if it could be done, it would already have been done! Sorry to ramble on, anyway, I'm glad somebody finally did it! lol
Denny

[buckconner]

I see everyone is using large amounts (grains) of powder for their hunting needs. Have you ever tested just what your gun is using and what it's just depositing on the ground in front of you?

This time of the year with snow on the ground would be a good time for testing just what that old smoke pole can handle (burn). find a clear spot with no tracks in the snow and setup a target for testing. Load your favorite load with whatever your using pellets or loose powder. Take a test shot over your clean snow surface, then look at the snow for unburned powder, you may be surprised at what you'll find (will look like black pepper on the snow). If your blowing unused (not burned) powder onto the snow, reduce your load and test again.

Years ago writers would tell you, you need large amounts of powder for clean kills. Usually those amounts where what the gun was proofed at! I was writing for "Buckskin Report" and found after doing some testing as suggested we where burning to much.

Buck

[rem 700]

I use loose. Your pressures still go up even if you aren't getting thorough powder burn, so you're still going to shoot faster. I guess wasted powder isn't a big problem for 209 inlines like it is for a sidelock though.

[turkeyhuntr]

I like loose powder. 110 grs. of Pyrodex in my Knight Disc Rifle. Loose powder costs less and you can fine tune your load alot easier. I do however know alot of people who use nothing but Pellets and swear by them.

[rooster52]

Formy deer load ,110 grains of 777 and a 295 HP Powerbelt in either of my knight or NEF Rifles.

For elk I use 105 grains 777 and a 348 Pointed Tip Powerbelt in my Knight.

Both of these loads are very accurate and consistent.

I don't look for complete powder burn ,I look for accuracy!

[buckconner]

I shoot smoothbore flintlocks, use 3FFF Goex powder for my load as well as for priming, one less powder horn or priming tube to mess with. The manufacturers will tell you we should not use 3FFF in anything larger than a .50 caliber gun. A smoothbore doesn't build the same pressures as a rifled gun leaving me get away with using it, plus I use Griffin hooked breech plugs which are the best you can get.

That said, I use 80 grains of 3FFF with my .62 (20 gauge) gun, 75 grains with of the same powder with the .58 (24 gauge) and 70 grains with the .54 (28 gauge). These loads for these guns are using up the full load with very little not being burned, many hours of testing to get down to these measurements. Don't forget moisture will also get into the act of burning powder. When running around the country shooting in blackpowder matches the load would change a few grains depending on the locations, along with the site picture and spot to hold on with fixed iron sight. Fun game we play.

By the way have killed buffalo, black bear, elk, mule and white tail deer with these combinations having all shots go through the animals with small entry holes and large exit holes.

Whatever works for you whether your burning a full load or not is up to you and your pocket book, just be safe.

Buck

[Lodiman]

110grains double f goex behind a 180 grain round ball 50 cal. Actual muzzle loader not inline crap.(IMO) If you use an inline, no difference than a 3030.(IMO)

[jess1]

Thanks guys,i see most of us use pretty much the same powder charges.we all differ mostly on bullets and bullet weighti prefer 290 grain barnes tmz.

[APBT1]

Formy deer load ,110 grains of 777 and a 295 HP Powerbelt in either of my knight or NEF Rifles.

For elk I use 105 grains 777 and a 348 Pointed Tip Powerbelt in my Knight.

Both of these loads are very accurate and consistent.

I don't look for complete powder burn ,I look for accuracy!


What kind of results are you getting on game with that load?

[for-ccw]

BowhuntinSomthin , unless i`m missunderstanding 777powder, what scares me is the fact people are using 150grns. of 777. isn`t 777 powder 15- 20 % hotter than most b/p substitutes. if thats the case than 150grns.777 =`s about 175 to 180 grns. say pyrodex or amer. pioneer. BE CAREFULL

[doc44]

My black powder baby was a Thompson Center Hawken kit. And after a lot of play I wound up using 150grns of 3f behind a TC BUFF slug and the same charge with a round ball. I never expected the sluggs to expand only to punch a big bloody hole in the target. I had some great fun with gun I used it for opening day for 10 years, thats regular rifle season. I had fun and I got lots of stares as I included period clothes and a copy of a period pistol and knife in my belt. My son shoots the Hawkin now and I am looking for the 54 cal version, good luck huh. He shoots 125 grns behind the same bullets I used, sissy! Doc

[rooster52]

What kind of results are you getting on game with that load?

I have never had a bullet exit an elk ,but they mushroom to near an inch. Also never put an elk right down,they have gone 50 yards to 1/4 mile ,but have never lost one.One we ended up shooting 4 times.

On deer the bullets usually exit with a 3 inch hole thru the ribs,then some times drop on impact and others have run up to 100 yards.

[DblLung]

I use 100 gr pyrodex (2 pellets) behind hornady XTP sabots 240gr. Fantastic expantion and accuracy is more than adiquate given I wont shoot past 125yds. I moved to the XTP due to bullet failure from the yellow tipped shockwaves with myself and my hunting partner. I think the bullet may have performed better with 150gr charge but who knows. 45 cal (from a 50cal) holes bleed a lot but I want more shock and awe. The xtp's deliver. You could see the shock ripples on the deer from about 75 yard in the binos. it went 3 stagering leaps and plopped over. Rabbits and p-dogs dont like the xtp very well either. But I susprect the TC shockwaves wouldnt be nice to them either.

[jcat]

110grains double f goex behind a 180 grain round ball 50 cal. Actual muzzle loader not inline crap.(IMO) If you use an inline, no difference than a 3030.(IMO)

Lodi,

With all due respect where do you draw the line?

1738 was the year the first in-line muzzleloader was used by the Germans. In 1838 the first in-line was used with a scope. So I am confused as what is considered "an actual muzzleloader" now mind you I dont even own one yet, but am looking to. I am just looking for some insight. Apparently flintlocks were easier to produce for battle so they were not as abundant as the in-line.

J

OH, I was curious how it is the same as a 30/30?

Thanks

[Rich M]

Just because a gun says 150 gr on it, some use150 grains of powder. Some of those guns really push a bullet - whoever would have thought we would see 200 yard+ muzzleloaders?

The whole 30-30 thing has to be about velocity. A 30-30 kicks out around 2100 fps. Some muzzies exceed that and have a .44, .45, or .50 bullet which would make it more powerful.

I've read a bunch about powerbelts and saw some interesting writing about using around 90 gr of powder with a powerbelt for more optimum performance. It is soft lead, not a jacketed bullet.

A guy running around in frilly leather with mocasins & a flint lock musket - cool.

Just don't tell me I have to do it. I like my inline with the red dot scope - getting a deer is all the challenge I need at this time.

[APBT1]

I have never had a bullet exit an elk ,but they mushroom to near an inch. Also never put an elk right down,they have gone 50 yards to 1/4 mile ,but have never lost one.One we ended up shooting 4 times.

On deer the bullets usually exit with a 3 inch hole thru the ribs,then some times drop on impact and others have run up to 100 yards.


Drop your load to 80 grains triple 7 (If thats what you are using) and go to either a 338 platinum or a 348 copper series. Powerbelt recommends a 348 minimum for elk size game. The platinums are supposed to be able to handle a little more powder but i havent been able to test them yet to find their max load.

[rooster52]

Drop your load to 80 grains triple 7 (If thats what you are using) and go to either a 338 platinum or a 348 copper series. Powerbelt recommends a 348 minimum for elk size game. The platinums are supposed to be able to handle a little more powder but i havent been able to test them yet to find their max load.


We use 90-100 grains of powder,I use Triple 7,my buddys use American Pioneer.We all shoot Powerbelts 348's , some use hollow points an some use the plastic tip. Can't really see any difference on elk,they both kill them.

[APBT1]

We use 90-100 grains of powder,I use Triple 7,my buddys use American Pioneer.We all shoot Powerbelts 348's , some use hollow points an some use the plastic tip. Can't really see any difference on elk,they both kill them.

APP is one of the worse powders to use due to it lacking #'s it produces. He can bump his charge up with the low #'s that APP produces.

The difference is, When using triple 7 and a lower charge of 80-g T7, you wont have to shoot the elk 4 times or track them 1/4 mile.

Farthest ive ever had to track was 30 yards and that wasnt even my deer. Powerbelts really come alive and do their stuff with low powder charges.

[rooster52]

That is the opposite of what the CVA Powerbelt rep told us,he said to add more powder.He said he shoots a 295 powerbelt with 120 grains of Triple 7 and it has worked for him.In my rifle I get the best accuracy with the Triple 7 at 105 grains and a 348 powerbelt.The recoil is a little stout though. Elk are tough animals and it takes a good accurate shot to put them down,even with a vital hit they may go aways before going down.

[APBT1]

lol. 120 grains triple 7 with a 295 powerbelt with an elk in front of it is going to be extremely bad. You push them to fast you get what you've been getting. Long tracking jobs with no blood due to the bullet coming apart.

If you like tracking those elk a 1/4 mile and shooting them 4 times, stick with what you're using.

[rooster52]

lol. 120 grains triple 7 with a 295 powerbelt with an elk in front of it is going to be extremely bad. You push them to fast you get what you've been getting. Long tracking jobs with no blood due to the bullet coming apart.

If you like tracking those elk a 1/4 mile and shooting them 4 times, stick with what you're using.

O.K. I will . 80 grains of powder just is not enough for an elk.

[seeker]

I am of the opinion that 80 grains of 777 and a properly placed shot will bring down any elk that walks this planet. Too high of a powder charge and powerbelts lead to bullet fragmentation. I have seen this firsthand and was lucky to recover the animal.
Seeker out

[rooster52]

We do no get fragmenting of the bullet,it just flatens out with no good penatration. One elk I shot at 30 yards in the lung and the bullet did not go only half way thru the animal. The elk went about 75 feet and tipped over,but he did not act like he even got hit from the impact.
When we recovered the bullet it was almost as big around as a quarter and almost flat.This was a lead Powerbelt ,not the copper coated one,348 grain hollow point.
This was in 1996 ,we use to shoot 90 grains of Pyrodex at that time.

[rooster52]

The 1/4 mile tracking job was on a friends elk. He shot it as it came to a wallow at about 75 yards.The ek went down ,thrashed arround and took off. he let it go for about 15 minutes and the rest of us heard the shot and headed over to see what happened. When we got there we began to track the elk and about 250 yrds away in the pine trees we saw it .It got up and stood there ,my buddy got about a 150 yard shot and the animal staggered and walked away.He pursuid the elk and shot him again at about 100 yards,the elk went down and got back up and walked off again.The next time we saw the elk it was lying down by a dead fallen tree,my buddy got within 25-30 yards and neck shot it. Finally .

[APBT1]

80 grains T7 with that 348 copper or 338 platinum will bring down ANY elk/moose in this world.

i dont like the lead powerbelts, they lead the crap out of your barrel and perform very poorly in my sand trap. I tested the 295's and they started to come apart with 80 grains Pyrodex Select.

For elk, i'd use the copper or platinum in 338+ grain.

We use 348 grain aerotips with 80 grains Pyrodex Select for elk. Just havent gotten close enough to use them yet. Seems like the animals always know to stay an extra 100 yards farther during hunting season lol.

[rooster52]

I bought a case of the Powerbelt 348 copper coated ,1/2 the case is hollow point and the other half is plastic tip,probably will use the plastic tip s for elk hunting . They both shoot the same for me.I got some Pyrodex Select I'll try next time I go shoot.

[APBT1]

Russ,
When you go out shooting, take either a 12x12 cardboard box and a small shovel with you and pack that box full of sand Or whatever is laying on the group. Use your normal hunting loads and take a couple shots at 50 yards, 70-75 and 100 yards and see how the bullet acts.

80 grains Pyrodex Select is an awesome performing load withthe 348 aerotip in my fathers .50 cabelas hawken.

I agree, use the Aerotips for hunting but make sure they shoot the same as the HP's that you sighted in with.

What rifle are you shooting by the way?

Im west of Trinidad Colorado BTW.

[rooster52]

I own several BP rifles ,but the ones I am shooting this week wll be a NEF Huntsman ,a Knight LK93 and a T/C Omega. They are all 50 cal. I have hunted with the Knight several times and also the NEF ,but the Omega is brand new. The NEF has a scope on it ,the others are open sights.

I applied for a GMU 4 cow tag -first choice and a state wide cow tag for second choice. I plan on hunting somewhere in the NW part of the state if drawn,if not I will buy a leftover cow tag for anywere,just as long as I get to go!
I got plenty of horns for the wall,only interested in a cow elk.

[deerjackie]

110grains double f goex behind a 180 grain round ball 50 cal. Actual muzzle loader not inline crap.(IMO) If you use an inline, no difference than a 3030.(IMO)

wish i had a 30-30 when i owned a traditi__S to shoot the ones i couldnt hit when i threw the t gun at them

[APBT1]

wish i had a 30-30 when i owned a traditi__S to shoot the ones i couldnt hit when i threw the t gun at them

Traditions are excellent shooters man! I got an easy 40 yard head shot on this one a couple years back.
110 grains FFFg Goex and a .490 hornady round ball. That flinter will print 2" groups all day @ 100 yards.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/frontier_gander/Guns/100_2235.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/frontier_gander/Guns/100_2210.jpg