Desperate please help #2

[lovetohunt]

I read all of the replies and would just like to first of all thank you dearly. get em duck you asked me to tell more about my .270 winchester and I will tell you all I know. First of all I have no idea how old the gun is I'm guessing about 60-65 years old. My dad who doesn't hunt because he's a vet remembers my grandpa using it when he was 14 or 15. I am certain that the gun has never been cleaned and I mean certain. I cleaned it for I thought to be the first time last season and it was dirty and I mean dirty. The scope is and early model of Weaver (Thin Crosshairs). The bases and Rings seem to be on as tight as possible, and I don't see a problem. Recently my friend and I were shooting it at prarie dogs and it was shooting almost 3 feet high!!!! I aimed way, way low and it still shot that high. I am a good shot with my .243 winchester but I might just result asking to use one of my uncles guns I am sure he will.

To answer dumbyam's question I am positive that the rifleing is maybe worn out and the stock is beat to **** because my grandpa just packed it around in an old leather case that's pretty shot too. But I have to give him credit because he is the nicest man that I know and he let me have his .243 which I love and was brand new and he also set up my brother with a 25wssm for wolves if and when we get that season in Montana. My brother will not let me use that gun because he calls it his baby and I would really hate it and he wouldn't like it if something happened to it.

[lovetohunt]

I am now known as "outdoorsman91"

[dubyam]

If the gun has never been cleaned much, it is extremely possible that a good copper solvent (like Break-Free foaming bore cleaner) will solve your problem. If the rifle consistently shoots 3' high, it may just need to be sighted in. That old Weaver scope should have windage and elevation adjustments - make use of them. If the gun is truly shot, you can send it to me, and I will see what I can do with it, just for fun. I suspect it is dirt, not overuse, that is causing your problem.

Again, clean the fire out of it with a foaming bore cleaner, and take the action out of the stock and clean everything. Put it back in the stock, and don't overtighten the screws. Just about 1/2 to 1 turn past snug will do for most guns. Once you get it all cleaned and back together, go to the range, sight it in, and then let us know if it is still giving you fits. If so, my money is on that Weaver going bad. It would likely take something on the order of 3500-4000rds to 'smooth' a 270Win bore, and that's an awful lot of shooting at 20rds per box. I bet there's nothing permanently wrong here.

Also, how can you tell you're shooting 3' high?

[outdoorsman91]

We were shooting at praire dogs against a banked hill. I saw a piced of dirt that was pretty close to 100 yards away right under the hill. And for shtzengiglles we thought we would try and see how good it shoots. It was pretty dang close to 3 feet high

[dubyam]

I still say it is time to take it down for a thorough cleaning and then take it to a proper range and sight it in. I bet you get to elk hunt with it after all. Keep us posted.

[Miraclefly]

Listen to dubyam - He is giving you good advise. I too would bet on the rifle being either dirty or the scope being bad. Get a standard sight-in target, a 3x3 piece of cardboard and some sand bags and get an accurate assessment of exactly where it is hitting and how it is grouping. Use 3 shot groups.

Other than a few milatary rifles I have never seen a barrel totally shot out. Now a rifle may not hold a 1" group, but it should give you a sufficiently tight enough group to hunt with.

[get'em duck]

I have to agree with dumyam, clean it out and go shoot three shots and see if they are grouped together if they are it's not shot out and just needs tuned, maybe it got bumped and the scope is just off. I don't think that gun has seen enough shots to be shot out...does it have open sights, if the scope doesn't adjust like it should, pull the scope off and shoot the open sights if it helps, if so then your scope is shot, just replace and enjoy the hunt.

[Dead_Beat]

i was haveing the same problem with my 270 first thing i thought it was shot out it went from 1-1/4 to 8 inch groups almost over night it turnned out to be the front turn in ring when i took it apart i had to drill the ring screw and the windage screws the windage had to retapped ! it takes alot of shooting to burn out a barrel the 270 it not known to be a barrel burner

JIM

[citori]

A "shot out" barrel is generally a somewhat gradual event and does not happen over night. I'd guess it is more likely that something happened to the scope such as having the scope receive a hard knock sometime since its last use. This would be especially so if the gun still shoots consistantly to the same area as the "bad" scopes I've experienced had the tendency to scatter bullets all around the area. Never the less, a good cleaning is definitely called for as that will affect accuracy to a degree though I doubt it would be enough to cause a bullet to be 3 feet off target. I am not a fan of the spray in bore cleaners for long neglected bores as they do not have a very high concentration of copper remover which is whatis the greatest opain to remove. I do find they work well on the typical barrels that may have a hundred rounds or so through them since the last cleaning. In the commercial gun solvents, I have had good results with Butch's Bore Shine and especially with Barnes CR-10. These will remove copper from a barrel quite well though they do not seem to be all that great at removing powder fouling despite the claims. The problem with ammonia is that it is a salt along with a cleaner which can cause rapid rusting in bores unless fully neutralized. This can be done with a standard bore cleaner like Hoppes #9 or other such cleaner. In long neglected bores, I find that the residue is layered and removing the top layer of say copper leaves another layer of residue that is protecting the next layer of copper requiring the cleaning steps to be alternated and repeated. For powder fouling, I use Hoppes Benchrest with copper remover. This formula removes the powder fouling quite well and as it does not contain ammonia, it can be left overnight or even days before swabbing out. This solvent also neutralizes ammonia so one can get by with only a couple solvents. Once done cleaning, run an oiled patch down the bore and let sit for a few minutes before running a clean patch through as the cleaning process removes not only whatever oils you use but also those that naturally occur in metals. I now use a lot of Windex for copper removal as it contains ammonia and is considerably cheaper than the brand name gun cleaners. Other household cleaners with ammonia or just plain ammonia would also work. Just don't get ammonia on finished wood or some plastics as will eat through wood finishes quite quickly and can scour plastics if not removed. Another hint is if you are using any ammonia, pick up a non-bronze jag and brush. Bronze contains copper and it will be eaten away as quickly as the copper in the bore. I prefer stainless steel brushes for tough cleaning as the plastic ones just do not have the strength to dislodge baked on residue. I've also found running some patches with lapping compound down the bore to help, they are even more effective if you use it right after firing a couple of rounds to warm up the barrel.
I've had to go to these extremes with two guns I've bought. both looked like they had not been cleaned since the left the factory nearly 100 years prior. I used a cork to plug the barrel at the muzzle and then filled the barrel up with Benchrest. I left them sit for a couple of days, poured out the solvent, and then cleaned the sludge out of it with patches and brushes. It took nearly three weeks of soaking and swabbing but I finally got the bores clean enough to safely shoot. Prior to this the barrels were so obstructed that pressures rose to the point of the primers beginning to back out of the case. Accuracy was in the 6" range at 100 yards for the one while the other with open sights, did roughly the same at 50. What tipped me off to a bore problem was that the primers were backing out, a possible sign of high pressures once headspace issues were ruled out.
Again, resight the rifle and clean the bore good. If that does not work, try a different scope. Chances are this will fix whatever problems you are experiencing. If you have to use the 243, do as others have instructed, wait for a broadside shot at reasonable range and put the bullet intot he vitals. I would look for 100 gr ammo using a toughly constructed bullet like the Nosler Partition, Barnes TSX, Swift A-Frame, etc. as this will give you all the advantages you can get if forced to use this cartridge.