Built in Gun / Safe Room

[Riverbottom]

We are considering selling our house and purchasing a new home OR maybe trying to build a new home. I am very interested in trying to find an existing home with a safe room for storage of firearms and whatnot. If we build I will have one built into the basement. I'm interested in hearing from some of you that might have this in your home and what you have done to make it "safe" and what dimensions they are, what kind of door, what kind of humidity control system you have installed etx...

Thanks!!

[legotp456]

I do not have one of these rooms but have some suggestions, first i would say to buy the biggest gun safe you could find, my local range has one that is huge and must hold around 30 or so rifles but could probably hold more depending on size of rifles and if you wanted to put ammo and scopes and what not in there also. Second i would seeing as this is in your basement use cinder blocks and create a 6 foot by 8 foot room for the safe and some small selves where you could put less critical items like shooting bags and range supplies. Now as for locks and a door well i quess that would depend on budget as you could go anywere from i quess two steel doors ( first swings out and the second in) each with a dead bolt on each of the three sides that dont have hinges to stop someone just cutting around a single on. This would be sort of like the bars on a vault door but on a smaller scale. I would think that two sturdy steel doors and six dead bolts would stop pretty much anyone and then the safe on top of that should give you all the protection you would need.

Tony

[winchesterwon]

You can purchase a steel vault door for biulding a walk in gun room. Walls floor and cieling should be a high psi poured concrete with plenty of re-bar. A system for moisture and temperature control will be needed. If built in a basement do this before you do any framing. I would stay away from cinder block because it would be to easy to bust through. The companies who make the vault doors should have some specs on this.

[tddeangelo]

A friend of mine did just that. He got a vault door after much searching (he found one from a building being gutted that had a vault in it). When he had an addition put onto his house, he had them build out part of it securely (as was described) and install the vault door on it. I'm not sure what he did about climate control. If nothing else, through a dehumdifier in there with much greater capacity than the room would require and keep it emptied.

[pre6422hornet]

I did something similiar in the basement of our old house. I built a room 12x12 with two of the walls reinforced with the outside foundation/basement existing walls. The other two walls I made with the metal 2x4's but instead of regular 16" spacing I used 3". I figured if they wanted to cut through the drywall and studs I would make it extra hard to do so.

For a door I just used a regular prehung pine from HOme Depot and put two bolt locks on it plus the knob lock. I hung it so it swung out instead of in. ( not as easy to push it in). All my valuables went in there, 35+ firearms, titles, deeds, insurance papers ( in a seperate fire proof safe) etc...

But the best defense I had were my neighbors. Both sides were retired couples who never left for more than 2 hours and believe me if anyone approached my house who wasn't suppose to be there, they knew about it and did something. Just goes to show how much worth there is in sharing some venison, geese, and pheasants with neighbors.

I know it isn't the vault door scenario (which I am considering in the new house) but it worked for me when I was on a budget and the job I had required me traveling M-Th every week.

[Kellyelk]

I have a very good friend that did this very thing. If you get on the internet and do your research you will find several manufacturers of vault style doors. The one he decided upon was electric and mechanical locks. The price he paid was less than most of the fireproof safes out on the market at moderate costs. It even came with a insurance policy from the company that stated if the room was breached thru the door they would cover all items inside the safe room. Provided of course that you built the room to their minimum specs and provided all pertinent information to their insurance company. Seeing as how my friends collection is close to $75,000 or more I think this is a wonderful option. He has some really neat things that if lost or stolen would be impossible to replace do to historic value. He now sleeps well at night. The doors are available in a variety of finishs or you can have them sent unfinished and do it yourself.

In the future when my wife and I get the chance to upgrade our home by moving or building I will be doing this very thing. If I get the oppurtunity I will ask him for some more specific info on who built his safe door. This is a very good idea for all of our firearms and valuables.

[legotp456]

I was thinking of filling the cinder blocks with contrete which i figured would make the framing/building a little easier. Also they have some vault doors at midwayusa.com that arent too expensive but i am really not sure you even need the whole safe room thing. They have some very large gun safes on the market and i would think that unless you either have a really big gun collection or an even bigger budget a whole safe room isnt really nessesary. Check out Pentagon Safes website. They have a safe that holds over 100 firearms and is less than just the vault door and at 1600 pounds i dont think even the most determined theif could moce it, let alone break into it. Also if you were designing the house from scratch you could make it so that the safe was impossible to remove from the basement by making the doors simply not wide enough.

Tony

[d2huffman]

I have designed a couple of safe rooms for friends, both in basements. One we used a "safe" door and the other we used a heavy duty fire door with commerical deadbolt and then installed behind a standard door - the fire door swings into room and reg dr swings out. While concrete or cmu is best for walls, mtl studs (20 gauge min) with plywd and reinforced gwb will give fire and entry protection and is easier in an existing house. Steel decking with concrete, gypsum or gwb both sides can be used for the ceiling. If you do any venting of the room there should be extra heavy ducting to outside or a fire damper. If you are going to build the room, I recommend that you build a min of 2hr fire resistance.

[pre6422hornet]

Here in Toledo Ohio 4 months ago a safe was stolen from inside the house. A white van pulled up ( It looked like a repair man was inside according to neighbors), they broke open the front door and literally cut a hole in the existing front doorway big enough for the safe. They then wrapped a chain, rope, etc around the safe and using a winch pulled the safe out of the house, onto the liftgate, and into the van. I believe there were 75 or so guns in the safe. They only went for the safe. Nothing else was touched.
So far no arrests have been made as far as I know.

Police believe it was an inside job ( repair man who had been in the house and saw the safe, etc...)

IF they want it bad enough they will get it.

[legotp456]

Yes granted but if you bolt a 1600 lbs safe like the one i posted the link to to a contrete or even a stronger wood floor it would be impossible to winch it out not to mention it would prob destroy the suppesion in the van. Also if it were in a basement there would be no way to lift something that big up the stairs. That said i do understand your point that many people overlook where and how they put a safe in their home and simply think a safe is magically inpossible to pick up when a simple 20 min bolt down will solve the problem. Another thing i would like ot add is that you should no matter how big/small a safe is be careful of who you tell about it and keep it in a location that not everyone who enters the house can see as word of a big safe like that can and as the last posts shows will draw attention from the wrong people.

Tony

[Jaybird]

The most common home "safe" room is built by using cinder blocks filled with concrete. The reason is that cinder blocks are inexpensive and fairly easy to move. By filling the hallow inside of the blocks with concrete you provide both a security deterrent as well as give yourself some insulation from the threat of a fire. Again, for an economical vault door, you might consider an insulated commercial metal door that you can get at a hardware store or architectual hardware outlet. Another consideration is to use a light burglar resistant vault door. To provide extra security, you may want to consider adding a security alarm contact on the vault door, a motion sensor inside the vault, as well as a smoke sensor inside the vault. One last thing to consider is that whatever you do, make sure you install some safety features inside the vault. In the unfortunate event that you accidentally get locked inside the vault, you want a light switch inside the vault as well as a form of communication to the outside world.. such as a phone.

[52449]

OK. How about this. I am currently building a home. They just poured the concrete for the basement. When I saw it I just about fell over. The front steps sit on walls that go all the way don to the basement footings. There is a 4 sided room about 6' X 6' that will have concrete steps on top. If I was to buy a vault door what would the interior climate be inside this room? Would jst adding a electric heater be enough to keep it dry? Any idea what the fire rating be? What I'm asking is does he size of the room and the fact that there is earth on three sided on the exterior increase the time it takes to heat p the interior of the room? I would have to cut a place for the door but tis might be to good to pass up. Ant ideas?

[brent821]

Hey there new here just moved into a house and have a problem. the house has a 13 x 4 ft concrete room. now i have had my guns in there and find they are startinging to rust plz give me some input on what you would do. the room in 1/4 above ground. have no ideas. thanks in advance

[scape111]

Hey there new here just moved into a house and have a problem. the house has a 13 x 4 ft concrete room. now i have had my guns in there and find they are startinging to rust plz give me some input on what you would do. the room in 1/4 above ground. have no ideas. thanks in advance

what kind of heating system do you have? if forced air- (ductwork)- it could be as simple as adding in a zone damper. This will allow you to "seperately" control that one room (think of it as an adjustable valve). You'd just have to be a new feed and return in from your main trunk in that one room.

Only other things i can think of- that are relatively "easy" fixes and not too expensive- is something like a reverse wine cellar. (obviously you want to control the humidity in the opposite direction). I don't know if some of those units will allow you to keep the humidity low- check out WHISPERKOOL. They make some stand alone units (no ductwork/air reserve rooms needed)- but don't know if they'll help you achieve the optimal humidity levels for gun storage.

Other thought- do you have a de-humidifier down there? is your basement kinda damp (not necessarily water)- try picking one up- putting it in the room, and see if it makes a difference. I'd bet that it would.

[d2huffman]

52449 - To answer a couple of your questions and give you some ideas: For the door, you can buy a fire rated steel door for a commercial supplier and install a high quality deadbolt if you do not want to get a vault door (my buddy installed a regular wood door on living space side of fire door so the vault doesn't look out of place). Did you do waterproofing on outside of concrete walls and is there a vapor barrier under the slab? If not you may need to do some moisture control treatment depending on soil moisure and water table issues. If you add ventilation, you should install a fire damper on the vent. You will need to put a humitity meter in room and monitor - with this you can experiment with adding heat or the dehumity crystals. Adding heat may bring more moisture out of walls/floor. There are products to install on slab and walls to reduce moisture penetration if no barrier was insalled under slab or on outside of walls. The heating time with soil on 3 sides is not much difference. If they have not backfilled yet, you can add a membrain to outside of walls. Good luck.

[scape111]

one quick add-on-

be careful with your "moisture" control and water proofing- houses/walls NEED to breathe- air tight is different than water tight- so whatever products you choose to use if you go that route- do some research. Pending where you live, and your water tables (as previously mentioned, excellent point)- you may do more harm than good- either with too much hydrostatic pressure building up, even with footing drains, or mold- pending your finishes inside, and if the moisture is trapped inside because of excess waterproofing. Water will move in and out of foundation walls- this is natural- question is, where does it wick to or what can it touch. Up here in the Northeast- it is common to see mold behind walls of finished basements because a lack of water proofing, or materials put up directly on the concrete without an air-space. For added security- check into a product called DRY-LOCK- it's a paint basically for foundation walls (interior use)- very well worth it.

again- all of this is specific to individual sites- so take from it what you can- this just all entered my mind after visiting a site this morning... with moldy panels from the 70's in a clients basement...

[d2huffman]

scrape111 - good additional comments about moisture issues. There is an easy test for the concrete slab that should be done called calcium chloride test to measure moisture migration though the slab - you can buy online or most flooring installers can supply you the test packages. There are so many variables, especially with below grade spaces that need to be reviewed to avoid mold and moisture problems in a space. Geographic areas with very low humitity have some of the worst problems as the migrates to balance the enviroment. There is ample information available on the web and through local building departments and builders to keep you reading for many nights - just be aware of the scam products that will fix it all - they don't exist! As we strive to reduce the cost of heating and cooling of our homes we create new issues to deal with.
Regarding the waterproofing of concrete walls/slabs - if the barrier is installed on the soil side and provides a continuous barrier - the concrete will dry out and become balanced with the interior moisture level. Even small holes or inferior produces will compromise the barrier. You do need to heavily ventilate and heat the space during the drying process which can take several months. I see a lot of people using dampproofing on foundation walls when they should be using a waterproof membrain. They also either don't put a barrier under the slab or they allow the barrier to be damaged prior to pouring concrete.

[scape111]

d2huffman-

ahh... very good... so what you are leading to is they should go back and look at the plans and specs to see if the contractor has a proper installation, and then be prepared to fight a change-order if he didn't? :)

just kiddin' 'round...

[d2huffman]

scape111 - funny you mention the CO. A friend just had this battle with the contractor that built his house - the drawings called out an underslab barrier in the heated basement hot rod garage and the contractor didn't install it (I didn't do the design just advised on action). The contactor paid several thousand dollars to have the slab bead blasted and a trowel-on barrier system installed. The foundations walls were fine as the Owner had installed the waterproof membane himself - he is a commercial general contractor himself. Trouble is a lot of designers and builders still have their heads in the sand - "we have always done it this way" is what you hear.

[scape111]

scape111 - funny you mention the CO. A friend just had this battle with the contractor that built his house - the drawings called out an underslab barrier in the heated basement hot rod garage and the contractor didn't install it (I didn't do the design just advised on action). The contactor paid several thousand dollars to have the slab bead blasted and a trowel-on barrier system installed. The foundations walls were fine as the Owner had installed the waterproof membane himself - he is a commercial general contractor himself. Trouble is a lot of designers and builders still have their heads in the sand - "we have always done it this way" is what you hear.

oh- we've seen our share as well- and heard plenty of the "i've never done it like that" excuses... i completely agree with you- and try to make a point at the beginning that- hey- i don't know everything either- so if you listen to me, i'll listen to you, and we'll BOTH come up with a correct solution. Good in theory- but when money gets involved- well, i'm sure you know- doesn't matter if it's on the plans or not in some eyes... those fingers start pointing around...

[headoftheholler]

My dad purchased a security door through Browning. It has the appearance of a standard 6 panel white door but is reinforced concrete and has 6 or so locking bolts.

[d2huffman]

The sad thing for this contractor was that he saw the requirement on the drawings and just didn't think the barrier below the slab was needed and didn't bother to discuss with owner. Good to have the discussion with you - scape111 - I keep learning everyday on this stuff. Good to see the number of people on forum that have broad experience and expertise that we can take advantage of for things other than just our hobbys.

[d2huffman]

My dad purchased a security door through Browning. It has the appearance of a standard 6 panel white door but is reinforced concrete and has 6 or so locking bolts.

That is a great looking door - went and checked out on web.

[scape111]

The sad thing for this contractor was that he saw the requirement on the drawings and just didn't think the barrier below the slab was needed and didn't bother to discuss with owner. Good to have the discussion with you - scape111 - I keep learning everyday on this stuff. Good to see the number of people on forum that have broad experience and expertise that we can take advantage of for things other than just our hobbys.

well, that'll be a mistake never made again. now he can worry about actually bidding everything on the drawings and always coming in too high!- yes... thanks for the kind words- and my pleasure and thanks to you as well.

hopefully some of all of this will be useful to someone!

[buckgitter]

I have a gun/safe room that I built into my basement. I bought the door through Browning and blocked the walls and poured them full of cement. The ceiling has 6 inches of cement in it on a metal corrugated roof(inside). I have had no problems with humidity and I am 100% happy that I did this. It is much nicer to walk into a gun room than reach into a safe! If you get a door from Browning, they send all the specs for attaching the door. You can also call ahead to get those. Good luck!!

[scape111]

I have a gun/safe room that I built into my basement. I bought the door through Browning and blocked the walls and poured them full of cement. The ceiling has 6 inches of cement in it on a metal corrugated roof(inside). I have had no problems with humidity and I am 100% happy that I did this. It is much nicer to walk into a gun room than reach into a safe! If you get a door from Browning, they send all the specs for attaching the door. You can also call ahead to get those. Good luck!!

buckgitter-

just to let ya know- in case there is every a "day after tomorrow" type East Coast storm... i'm coming over... (shoot- i'll even bring the food and drink...)

[buckgitter]

buckgitter-

just to let ya know- in case there is every a "day after tomorrow" type East Coast storm... i'm coming over... (shoot- i'll even bring the food and drink...)

sounds like a winner... I have a daughter that wants in there everytime it comes a thunder storm!!

[brent821]

hey to control the humity how about adding just a baseboard heater do you think that would do the trick and of course insulating or puting something on the walls

[scape111]

hey to control the humity how about adding just a baseboard heater do you think that would do the trick and of course insulating or puting something on the walls

heat won't necessarily control humidity- it may make it "feel" not as damp- but doesn't mean that the levels have really changed. It will help take some moisture out of the air- but safest bet would be to get a de-humidifier to help. Life cycle wise- probably much much cheaper- shoot, initial cost as well. Plus, you can then better control the amount of moisture as well even with temperature fluctuations. Also- (and thinking worst case scenerio...) say you do have a heater in there, and too much moisture... this will only provide a better ideal climate for mold to grow. not so good.

Insulation (and with a vapor barrier on the warm side) will def. help. This can be a simple installation/process- think of it this way- people finish their basements all the time. Many times, will put dehumidifiers in if it still "feels" damp. All is fine. Unless you have a situation with wicking in the existing walls, or through the slab below- you should be fine. If you have a "real wet" condition- then it's something to more look into to solve the problems. (I.E. temp/humidity controls, water protection, etc.).

[buckgitter]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I also painted the inside walls with Drylock. It is a waterproofing sealer from Lowes It cost about 22.00 a gallon.

[CannedHeat]

A guy in our neighborhood had over 100+ guns and had a vault built right into his house before they moved in. It was in the corner of his basement (block walls) and I believe it was framed up in lightgauge metal framing from slab to joists with the studs going every 8" incase of an attempted theft. The door was from "Fort Knox".

Very cool, but very pricy I'm sure.

As far as the interior climate and humidity levels, he had a sensor that would detect moisture and a built in fan w/ dehumidifier for that purpose. On the other side of his basement near his bar he had a wine cellar vault that did just the opposite and kept his cigars and wine in there with the perfect humidity. He died in a snowmobiling accident and his wife sold the house and moved. The new owners of the house had the entire gun locker torn out. When I inquired about the gun vault door, he said the guys that tore it out took it with them. When I told him what that room and the door cost, he almost got sick...

[Kirpiggy]

d2huffman, I'd like to pick your brain for a minute. My husband and I are contemplating having the rest of our basement dug out (we currently have a basement that's only 1/2 the sq. footage of our main floor). If we do so, we definitely want to build a gun safe room. You mentioned making the room 2 hour fire-proof, which we want to do. What materials and installation method(s) would we use? Also, would we need to install any venting or air control devices. We live in Utah, so we certainly don't have a humidity problem, and the basement is completely below ground level. We'd certainly appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[scape111]

d2huffman, I'd like to pick your brain for a minute. My husband and I are contemplating having the rest of our basement dug out (we currently have a basement that's only 1/2 the sq. footage of our main floor). If we do so, we definitely want to build a gun safe room. You mentioned making the room 2 hour fire-proof, which we want to do. What materials and installation method(s) would we use? Also, would we need to install any venting or air control devices. We live in Utah, so we certainly don't have a humidity problem, and the basement is completely below ground level. We'd certainly appreciate any advice. Thanks.

definetely install some sort of HVAC.... 2 hour fireproofing is easy- it more so depends on how intruder resistent you want the room... CMU filled solid will give you a 2 hour rating- so will 2 layers of "Type-X" GWB on wood/metal studs. (fire retardent wall board). Make sure walls go all the way up to the structure above- and don't forget to put 2 layers on the ceiling... if you want the 2 hour rating. Also- 2 hour rated walls usually will have 90 minute doors. (safe doors and other special application doors have ratings that are higher- but in your local municipal buildings, schools, etc... 90 min. doors are generally used and acceptable in a 2 hour rated wall).

[Kirpiggy]

Thanks for the input.