300 WSM or 300 Weatherby?

[tykempster]

I like the ballistics of the 300 Weatherby, but how big of a recoil difference would I be dealing with. A little more recoil wouldn't be bad for the improved power and range, but a huge jump would not be good. I like the Weatehrby Vanguard in Stainless Sporter and it's made in both calibers. Some people toldme that 300 Weatherby would be much more suitable for larger than deer game, even the big bears over the 300 WSM, but it seems like it would be suitable for most of the same animals. Thanks for any replies.

[hunter1992]

I can't give you to much advise on those to calibers but i know the 300 wetherby kicks hard. I know someone that had a 300 wetherby and he said he couldn't get to hit the side of a barn door if he wanted to with the gun. It turned out that the gun kicked so hard that everytime here shot the scope would get messed up. If you get a gun in that caliber make sure you get a good scope that can handle a hard kicking gun.

[Todd G.]

The recoil on a .300 Weatherby is significant, but not out of line. It wouldn't be a great rifle to sit and shoot at prairie dogs all day, but taking a couple of shots while hunting big game would be no problem. Comparing it to the .300 WSM, it is greater. The recoil on a .300 WSM is similar to that of a .30-06. So, remember it will shoot harder, but not out of line.

As for benefits of both, the .300 WSM was designed to compete with the .300 Win Mag without the recoil, nor the use of a long magnum action. Recoil wise, it saves your shoulder a bit. It is also known to be very accurate and available in lighter weight rifles. On the other hand, it doesn't handle the larger weight bullets as well as the full length cartridges. So, although it has great benefits in the popular bullet weights, its is limited when trying to expand it into 180 grain and larger bullets.

If you expect to shoot up to elk or moose, either rifle will do the job with great ability. If you elect to go after large bears, the .300 Weatherby would be a better choice. But, if its big bears, something bigger than the Weatherby may be even better.

If it was me, I would make an honest assessment about what you plan to hunt. If its only deer and an occassional elk, I would look at the .300 WSM. It will be easier on your shoulder and lighter to carry. And, most of the animals you shoot won't be able to tell the difference. If its mostly elk and larger that you intend to hunt, go with the Weatherby. Or, you could settle in-between and simply get a .300 Winchester Magnum....

[Yooper]

A great thing about the Weatherby Vanguard is the accuracy guarantee. You know you're getting a solid rifle. Basically a Vanguard is a Weatherby design built on a Howa action from Japan. They had some issues a few years back but now rate as one of the best values in rifles today. I wouldn't hesitate one moment to snag one.

As far as the caliber choices: the .300 Weatherby is a hard kicking round but has the down-rnage thump you'd need for larger game. A .300 WSM will limit you to a 180 grain factory round, although I have heard of some folks loading a 220 on their own... I don't know about that. Each will do the job but the thing to remember is accuracy. Practice, Practice, Practice... Weatherby Ammo isn't cheap either.

I picked this bit-o-info up and thought it might be useful as it pertains to shooting bears:
"The recent Bear Convention, which included Browns and Grizzlies from Alaska, Canada and many from the lower 48, brought about a consensus that they will only be shot with a minimum caliber of .330" and the bullet must weigh 250 grains. A caveat was to make exceptions when one of their kind is actually chewing on edible parts of a human."

Sounds like good advice.

Get a good scope. Optics are just as if not more important than the gun itself. Spend the extra coin and get a good scope. You'll appreciate it that much more.

Happy trails,
Yooper

[tykempster]

It would definately be mostly deer, at least until I get older. 180 grain is the heaviest I've seen in WSM. I've heard nothing but good things about the WSM and the and the reduced gun length and weight sounds good to me since I have a smaller frame. I was thinking about getting a Benelli R1 Comfortech and maybe a good Burris to go on top of it, the photos on benelliusa.com look really nice and the scopes work good too.

[LLOYD]

The recoil of the .300WSM is usually stated at 25-30 ft. lbs. in an average weight rifle & scope (i.e. 71/2-8 lbs.), the 300 Weatherby is usally shown as about 35-40 lbs. This is in my estimation a large amount of recoil for most shooters, particularly considering that you seem to be talking about hunting non-dangerous game. I feel that it is not a valid argument to assume you will only shoot a round or two when hunting, so recoil is no big deal. Try practicing with a 300 Weatherby at the range, particularly from someting like a prone position. I , for one would opt for a more manageable caliber that is easier to shoot more comfortably and practice with. The lighter caliber, which a shooter can shoot comfortably and accurately will more than make up for the advantage of the super magnum. I would stick with a 30-06 or .300WSM if you feel you must have a magnum.

[Yooper]

Looking at both sides of the recoil coin I'll add this. When I'm shooting clays or practicing for a duck/goose hunt, I don't relish shooting the 3-1/2" sheels I routinely will use in the field. Sure, I'll practice with them enough to know how they'll shoot, but it isn't fun by any means. Turkey loads are the worst! But when I'm in the field and popping round after round at geese and other game, I never feel it. I think recoil is partly in the mind. The fist time I shot a .375 H&H, I was told I'd need a new shoulder afterwards and guess what? I flinched and it hurt.

The flipside to this is yu need to be able to practice with whatever gun you shoot until it becomes second nature. I don't notice my 3-1/2" shells because I know what the gun is going to do. If you're shooting something that isn't fun to shoot, chances are you won't shoot it as much and therefore using it in the field is unethical and unsafe.

My suggestions then would be to go with a caliber you can shoot all day without worrying about the recoil. Most calibers you'd use for deer can effectivly take game up to and including elk. Then if you're planning a trip for a moose, a bear or other dangerous critters, get a bigger gun. I'd get something that shoots flat and is available with big bullets. My personal favorite, as I've mentioned before is a 7mm Rem Mag. I consider it the perfect caliber for most game and I've got bigger guns for big and toothy critters.

All good things come to those who shoot straight so I'd find a caliber you can do the majority of your hunting with and save the mega-magnums for the days when you'll be going for bigger game.

Happy trails,
Yooper

[farmer]

My father owns a 300 Weatherby and it is the most accurate gun that he has though he had a muzzle brake installed which greatly reduced the recoil and its not that unpleasant to shoot. The factory ammunition is expensive but if you handload you can considerably reduce the cost. Handloading also allows you to use bullets down to 110 grains or up to 250 grains. I sometimes borrow it for hunting both deer and hogs using 130 grain semi-spire points.

[tykempster]

Hmmm, I didn't even think about a muzzle break. If they really work like manufacturers claim, then that would take the recoil of a 300 Weatherby way down. How much does a good effective muzzle break cost? 31/2s aren't fun to shoot, but I don't find them as bad as people say. I was shooting 'em with a Mossberg Pump and my friend was complaining with his semi-auto. I like the Benelli R1 rifle alot, and it's made in 300 WSM and WM. My grandpa has shot a bunch of Benelli's with comfortech and without, and he thinks the comfortech version is for sure the way to go. If a muzzlebreak costs more than $300 I would be better suited with the comfortech, but if not I could have the break installed on the regular R1 and use the money I saved for practice ammo. I'm not sure. Any more suggestions?

[Yooper]

If you decide to go with a muzzle break, get the best ear protection you can because it'll be LOUD.

[elk killer wannabe]

What about one of those Sims Limb Saver recoil pads. Has anyone tried those? The manufacturer claims that you get significant recoil reduction over a typical pad and they only cost about $30. I have been thinking of getting one for my 300 win mag but I wanted to see if anyone has tried one and liked it.

[Yooper]

I have one on my Mossberg 835 and a buddy uses a slip on one with his .300 WSM. It's worth the money. They do exactly what they claim to.

[Todd G.]

Let's be really honest about recoil. Both the .300 WSM and the .300 Weatherby are going to kick. But, both are also very manageable as hunting calibers. To be real honest with you, if you can't handle a .300 Weatherby on the range with 10 to 15 shots, you won't be much better off with a .300 WSM.

Here's a listing of the relative recoil factors for some popular cartridges:

.270 Winchester -- 1.82
.30-06 Sprngfield -- 2.19
.300 WSM -- 2.36
.300 Win Mag -- 2.39
.300 Weatherby -- 2.63
.338 Win Mag -- 2.93
.375 H&H -- 3.42
.460 Weatherby -- 5.86
.700 Nitro Express -- 9.0

As you can see, both the .300 WSM and the .300 Weatherby are up there on recoil. But neither is out of line. If you are a beginning shooter (which it sounds like you are) both will be tough on you. But, at the same time, if you are looking at a semi-auto rifle, your recoil is going to be equivalent to a .25-06 or less.

But, be honest with yourself. If you plan to hunt deer, although both of the cartridges you listed will work well, both are also on the top end of a desireable cartridge for deer. You may be better served (cheaper ammo, less recoil) if you would stick to a more conservative cartridge with similar traits. A .308 or .30-06 will do everything either of the others will do with less recoil and less cost, as long as its only deer sized game.

[tykempster]

Oh yeah, didn't think about that once again. I saw an advertisement for one that said it angled the pressure away from your ears and took away alot of the noise associated with muzzlebreaks too.

[oscar galvan]

I have a 300 wsm and I use it for deer hunting it's the kind of bullet that gives you a sense of reliability

[turner1978]

I made the mistake of putting a muzzle break on my 338 win mag and After my elk hunt I sold it. My ears rang for a week and it was not pleasant. All of the wsm's are not that bad wiht the recoil. I owne them all and if it were me in your shoes,since you said that you will mostly be hunting deer, I would take a serious look at the 270wsm. The recoil is even less than the 300wsm and it shoots FLAT. I shoot 140 gr. bullets at over 3200 fps with mine and I use it for elk too.

[tykempster]

I think I'm going with a 7mm Rem Mag. Less kick than any of thema nd at long range ballistics are really close. I've been thinking about a Savage 111G, I don't wanna wait til next year to get the R1.

[turner1978]

some pros and cons to the wsm's are that the rifle comes with the same length of barrel in a smaller more manuverable package. Bolt throw is faster. Ammo is expensive and hard to find unless you reload. Some pros and cons to the 7 rem mag are Longer and heavier package for the same length of barrel. Ammo is easy to find and not as expensive to shoot. I like the light weight and short feel of the short mags personaly. Easier to pack all day long on the mountain. The recoil is about the same between the short mags and the 7 rem mag. Hope this was helpful.

[Dclewis]

I just picked up my new Browning A-bolt Medalion. A couple of tune up shots from the bore site brought me right in at 100 yards . My fist 3 shot group was in the 1 inch range. I topped it with the AV-4 12x50
Swarovski.
I only put 12 rounds through it so far but will be doing lots more range work soon.
The 325 WSM had little more kick than my 270 with the 180 grain winchester rounds. I cant wait for the season to open here in NY to give it a try on whitetail.
Jan will see me and my son in Texas for a Whitetail / hog hunt with 2J outfitters (Deer are actualy in Mex.). Shots on average are around 200 yards from what they tell me. Ill be ready!
Ill send some pics when I return. Dave

[tykempster]

I went with a Savage 110 in 7mm Rem Mag. The gun is pretty good, not pretty and not the best wood or anything but it's a shooter. The scope that came in the package will have to do until next year. I wish the gun was a little lighter and had a quick relase magazine, but for $400 it was a good deal. I was shooting it without any recoil pad and recoil wasn't too bad butt hen I got a Limbsaver slip-on and it kicks very little, probably around 2/3 of a 30-06. I'm pretty pleased.

[chulai69]

What about one of those Sims Limb Saver recoil pads. Has anyone tried those? The manufacturer claims that you get significant recoil reduction over a typical pad and they only cost about $30. I have been thinking of getting one for my 300 win mag but I wanted to see if anyone has tried one and liked it.

I have a remington Classic in .300 weatherby. I installed the Simms on it before I took the first shot and it was a noticable but managable recoil. The simms do work. I am only 150 lbs and I could hold a 2 inch group at 200 yds. My nephew shoots a .300 Winchester Mag and is 200 lbs and says that my weatherby has considerably more recoil. I thought they were about the same. I did go to a gunsmith and have him Pillar bed the action, bed the barrel, work on the trigger and install a Muzzle brake. Now my 115 lb Daughter in law shoots it. It is loud but very nice to shoot. I did purchase the game ear muffs and wear them while I hunt.

[Madawaska]

While I have no experience with the .300 WSM would anyone care to comment on feeding reliability, not only with this round but with some of the other new, short, fat cases coming out almost every second day. I seem to recall reading on a few occasions that some didn't feed so well. I have shot .300 Weatherby and if you do any shooting at all with rounds more powerful than the '06, it shouldn't give you any problems. But I would stay away from a muzzle brake. It's a good idea on paper but you will need the best hearing protection you can get and most of us don't usually wear that stuff when we're hunting. It's too bad that one of the grand old .300s doesn't get much press these days. I refer to the .300 Holland and Holland. Now there is one reliable, slick feeding round.

[RAMJET]

My hunting buddy has a 300WSM. I have a 300Wby Mag. We have both killed deer this past year with good success. I have shot his rifle (WSM) and it shoots beautiful. It has some moderate recoil that you will need to deal with.(Practice) I have shot approx 500 rounds with my 300Wby Mag. When I bought this rifle I purchased it from Wal-Mart for $383. It is a Vanguard SS. I also bought a box of 180 gr. ammo. and went out and shot it. WOW that was an experience. I shot the whole 20 round box and my shoulder hurt for 2 days. Recoil at 39lbs. was a bit strong I thought. I called the nearest Wby authorized dealer and talked to him about the recoil problem. He suggested I add a brake to the rifle, so I did. Weatherby would only let the dealer charge me $150 to install the brake. The recoil now is 19lbs. but, it is also made it louder. Now with 150 grain ammo this rifle is a real pleasure to shoot. I added a Luepold scope 3x9x40 that cost $250 and when you add it all up I have $800 in a accurate hunting rifle. I don't know how many hunting rifles you can purchase with a scope that will kill anything from Deer to Bear for $800. It really comes down to your personal preference I like my Wby. My buddy likes his WSM. I do agree that you need to find a rifle you like to shoot, otherwise you will find it rusting away somewhere. But the caliber of your rifle may not be the most important thing. Accuracy is the key if you can't hit a
8 1\2"x11" sheet of paper at 200 yds. your'e in trouble, the rifle caliber won't matter. If it's a deer rifle you want I think a 300WSM is fine. If you want something a little bigger once in awhile get the 300 Wby Mag. The knock down energy of a 300Wby Vs a 375 Mag is only 400 lbs diff at 200yds. It is only fair to say I am a little bit bias to my Wby. The 300 WBY Mag with a 220 grain bullett will stop any big game in north america. (remember accuracy is the key) Accuracy= 3 shot group at 100yds. covered with a quarter, at 200 yds. 2"-2 1\2" dia. circle.

[Handloader]

I've owned a 300 WSM and it did not take long for me to part with it. Problem was it just wasn't the performer I thought it was gonna be. I have a few '06's and have two Magnum 30's and a .338 WM. My 300 Weatherby is by far my favorite of the magnums.

What the 300 WSM could do, my '06's could do also. My favorite projectile in the 300 WBY is the 190 grain Hornady BT'SP's. There must have been too much of the bullet pushed back into the case because the performance of the 190's in my 300 WSM 70 Featherweight didn't impress me at all. I decided at that point if I was going to be limited to 150gr to 180gr projectiles that I would much rather have them pushed by the 1906 version of the 30 cal.

To make a long story short there are 0 short magnums in my gun vault. I just didn't enjoy the short ride on that bandwagon. Oh! The 300 WBY! It's still the king of the 30 Mag's in my opinion. Something about that double-radius shoulder that keeps me a loyal fan.

[tapehoser]

I own a Winchester Model 70 in 300 Weatherby WITH a muzzle brake. IT IS ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!!! With a little hand towel on my shoulder, I could sit and shoot the thing ALL day long.....and have! I recently shot 25 rounds in an afternoon and felt like I could just keep going and going. I never felt sore and love every minute I shoot it. A pure joy.

I recently loaded some Sierra 220 grain RN's and will be purchasing some 250 grain Partitions as well. The 220's shoot very well. Will let you know about the 250's. Interestingly enough, a HOTLY loaded 180 grain Partition (85 grains of IMR7828 SSC) kicks a lot less than one with, say, 82 grains. Weird? I don't know.....perhaps it's just my gun.

As far as the recoil reduction factor, since I have owned a 300 WSM in the recent past, I can say that the Weatherby with the brake kicks about 60% less than it does without it. And an Un-braked 300 WSM kicks about 50% more than a braked 300 Weatherby.
Make sense?

[Chris J]

I'd choose a .300 Weatherby over the WSM any day of the week as far as recoil goes. My M77 .300wsm kicks like a mule but the weatherby vanguard .300WBY my dad used to have was fun to shoot. Heck my .375 H&H Encore dont kick as bad as the .300wsm I have/had.

[Joshua Holtschneider]

It would definately be mostly deer, at least until I get older. 180 grain is the heaviest I've seen in WSM. I've heard nothing but good things about the WSM and the and the reduced gun length and weight sounds good to me since I have a smaller frame. I was thinking about getting a Benelli R1 Comfortech and maybe a good Burris to go on top of it, the photos on benelliusa.com look really nice and the scopes work good too.


If you are going for deer I advise a .300 WSM I have one made by weatherby, vanguard series it handles deer with authority at 400 yds and closer (never tried farther) my gun uses 150 gr. winchester supreme rounds and at 200 yds it will hold a 5 shot pattern about the size of a nickle. But if a WSM is what you are leaning toward I advise a scope by Swift 4-12x50mm retail approx 180.00, if you are going to take long range shots the wsm is hard to beat but if your shots are going to be no farther than 150 yds I advise a .35 remington it has about the same kick as a 308, the reason I am partial to the wsm is b/c I have never shot the weatherby but i have looked at the tables and felt recoil is considerably less

[dubyam]

Muzzle brakes are great for reducing felt recoil, but they are no panacea. The main issues are two. First, in the field, the report of the rifle is potentially damaging to the ears. With a brake, it is much moreso. Second, at the range, that same brake that gives your shoulder the ability to shoot more of that gun, will cause your head to have a problem, as the shock waves will begin to give you a headache after a little while. I have shot both with and without a muzzle brake on some pretty high-recoiling stuff, and frankly, you're better off with a good recoil pad and learning good form to shoot well and handle it.

Using a recoil calculator I have, I did a little math. The 300WSM, in a rifle/scope package weiging 8.5lbs, shooting a 180gr Partition, over 68gr of RL19, with a muzzle velocity of 2978fps, gives 27lbs of recoil. Now, that same 180 Partition, fired at 3115fps from a 300Wby package weighing 9lbs using a charge of 80gr RL22, will provide you 31lbs of recoil. For my money, 130fps for 4lbs of recoil is a good trade, especially considering the flexibility of using heavier bullets, such as the 220gr Nosler Partition, or some of the heavier Swift A-Frame bullets, which will really lose velocity in the WSM due to protruding into the case so much more.

That's just my opinion. By the way, I think the Vanguard is one of the top two or three rifles available in terms of bang for the buck, and one of the top five or six in terms of overall value.

[bob451]

I'm kind of the new kid on the block. However I've been around the block and I'm not really a kid (52yo). I Think that both 300 wsm and the 300 wby are great cal. But I do know what high recoil can do to a hunter. To start with ask yourself why did the gun mfg. come up with high energy down range mags? We have changed our way of hunting. Fly in and within two days you have a long range shoot. Not saying that this is bad or good just different. In todays world most people don't have the time to hunt or the game is not as plentiful as our forfathers.
Now I do know both guns and both can and will bite. All gun mgf. talked about are great so you can't go wrong with the gun company you pick (someone talked about an auto make sure you can use in the state you hunt) also if you travel hunt an auto may not be the best pick.
I went to Africa for Cape Buffalo and used a 378 wby mag. The gun was great but the recoil messed me up for years. Almost had to start all over 270 on up in cal.
In my opinion the cal. you should look at for what you want to hunt is the 30-06. Lot less recoil has enough down range engery (1200 @ 400+ yrds.). I don't use muzzle brakes as sound can be just as bad as recoil. This cal. can do it all in North America. I've used it on Moose, Elk, Bear, etc, no problem. Alaska outfitters perfer you use something larger because of the area you'll be hunting. A 30-06 can do the job well on an Alaskian Moose but it maybe asking alot on a Brown Bear and you can find yourself in a bear hunt in seconds. It is important to know ballistics as the down range bullet drop is somewhat large. Practice, practice, practice, which is better on you and on your pocket than a 300 mag. Knowing your ballistics + Less recoil = P L A C E M E N T. This is a good combo.
Just my two cents. Getting started at a young age with the right gun is very important. Good Luck.

[DblLung]

Off topic slightly. 300 win mag ammo cheaper than 300wby about 1/2. Easier to find than either. more rifles and factory loads. 300 win mag isnt one of the top 5 or 6 calibers in ammo sales for no reason. The 150 gr load for deer out of any of these round needs to be a premium bullet. The have too much exit splatter for me to try again. I like the 180gr at aprox 3100 nosler accubond. Elk hammer out past 500yds. ( further than I can shoot)

[jfyprsl]

its all about what your going to hunt if it is deer then i wouldnt pick either of the two calibars. i own a 300 wsm and it does the job but it really blows up whitetails and mules so i down graded to 25-06 and use the 300wsm for bears moose and elk besides you can never have to many guns!

[Miraclefly]

The 300 Wby is a fantastic round. IMHO it is far superior to the 300 WSM. It is way too much for deer, but is wonderful for elk and above. AS far as recoil is concerned, it is significantly more than a 300 WSM, however, given a choice between the two, I would not even consider the WSM if I was going after anything bigger than a whitetail.

[dubyam]

I keep hearing how the recoil is so much higher with the 300Wby, but when I run them through my recoil calculator (accurate so far in replicating recoil perceptions at the range after the fact), I come up with about 28-29lbs of recoil for a 150gr in both cartridges, and about 31-32lbs recoil for a 180gr in both cartridges. Now, that's a bit more tame load in the Weatherby, but in all reality, recoil only goes up to 35lbs (a 2.5lb difference, or 7.7%). This just isn't something that most people will notice either at the range or in the field, in my experience. Yes, the Weatherby has greater recoil, but in all reality, it is not even 10% higher. If you can shoot the WSM, you aren't going to be overwhelmed by the Weatherby, and if you're overwhelmed by the Weatherby, chances are the WSM is high enough to impact your shooting pretty substantially, and you won't get anything like your best accuracy in the field out of the round.

[Brembo]

I like the ballistics of the 300 Weatherby, but how big of a recoil difference would I be dealing with. A little more recoil wouldn't be bad for the improved power and range, but a huge jump would not be good. I like the Weatehrby Vanguard in Stainless Sporter and it's made in both calibers. Some people toldme that 300 Weatherby would be much more suitable for larger than deer game, even the big bears over the 300 WSM, but it seems like it would be suitable for most of the same animals. Thanks for any replies.


Last Friday, this is what my day at the doc did for you...

A guy there, with his wife in the same condition as me, for same reason (probably same girl that hit me!), was talking about rifles after he saw my magazine from JSC. I told him I wanted to hunt whitetail up to moose and he said to listen to him for a sec. He is 66, his wife 65. They've hunted for years when they were younger and he owns Weatherbys in every caliber up to 460, He's hunter deer to big game in Africa.

I hit him with a barrage of questions and here's what I got (some may not apply to you)

1) What he said was that the 257 would not kick my wife's butt, its great for small game. His wife shoots a 300 wby mag and its got the accubrake and kicks no more than the 257.
2) Take advantage of their production upgrade, get that little extra to reduce recoil on the bigger guns because it will keep your shoulder from hurting when you're 60.
3) If the choice is 300wby mag or anything else, take the wby mag. You can shoot anything with it, but the smaller game will blow apart. Get the 7mm wby mag is you're doing more Texas hunting or small game than big because it's easier on the game. It will take moose even up to the bigger variety in Canada.

I sat there waiting for 2 hours to see the doc (they gotta xray my leg, then upload it to the server. Plus he's the best so there's a milllion people there) and got a wealth on info from this guy and his wife. They were a great couple and I hope to keep in touch with them. We shared a lot of stories about hunting and locations and what we shot.

So when I came back from there, I figured out (and it shows on these forums) that the best thing is to get two rifles, the 257 and 7mm/300, for my hunting. Since that, I've asked several people about 300 mag and many who have WSM would rather have win mag or wby mag. They are not happy with it. Now the guy near me says it kicks harder than his 300 win mag, but he thnks he can handload that down. Time will tell.

Ballistically, the recoil should not be noticably more in a 300 wby than a 300 WSM, in fact the numbers suggest that the 300 WSM might be slightly sharper in kick.

Hey, if you can find a range that rents them, do it. There's one here in Houston some where and that's what I plan to do.

[Miraclefly]

I have two 300 WM, two 338 WM, one 300 Wby and a 375 H&H. I don't about the actual foot pounds of energy in each of their recoils, but I do know that the 300 Wby hurts more than any of the others. And, it has a muzzle brake. I find the recoil of either of my 338's "mild" when compared to the 300 Wby. By the way, the 300 Wby is my favorite "go to" rifle. Unfortunately, I can't shoot it much in the off season.

[HAIKU_RODNEY]

How about the 30-378 Weatherby? I understand it is really flat shooting!

[DblLung]

Split the differnce and get the 300 win mag. Ammo is just to pricey for the weatherby. I like to shoot my guns. But if you are like a lot of folks 1 box of ammo will last 5-6 years. 2-3 to check zero 1 to harvest your animal of choice and the rifle goes back to the rack. In that case price is no concern. I dont need a shorty they have thier place its just not at my place. No reason I just prefer the 300 win mag to each their own. The Hornady Mag loads run at 3100fps with a 180gr BTSP. This makes a very good round for elk, black bear, moose, cariboo, inland brown bear, audad, and anything else bigger than deer. My boss has 2 Elan, a Blue Wildebeast (sp?), and a Kudu all 1 shot kills although he said he would have kept shooting til they went down had they not went down as fast as they did.

[Alaska]

Barrel life throat has shorter life on the Wby Mag............suggest 300 WSM or 300 Winchester Mag

Plus like others said Wby take to much powder and brass too expensive.

[Miraclefly]

Split the differnce and get the 300 win mag. Ammo is just to pricey for the weatherby. I like to shoot my guns. But if you are like a lot of folks 1 box of ammo will last 5-6 years. 2-3 to check zero 1 to harvest your animal of choice and the rifle goes back to the rack. In that case price is no concern. I dont need a shorty they have thier place its just not at my place. No reason I just prefer the 300 win mag to each their own. The Hornady Mag loads run at 3100fps with a 180gr BTSP. This makes a very good round for elk, black bear, moose, cariboo, inland brown bear, audad, and anything else bigger than deer. My boss has 2 Elan, a Blue Wildebeast (sp?), and a Kudu all 1 shot kills although he said he would have kept shooting til they went down had they not went down as fast as they did.

Totally agree. I am fortunate enough to have both and I hunt with both. Even though my Wby is my favorite, in the off season, I primarily shoot my Winchester. Agree about the shorties too.

[wurgs]

I bought a Tikka T3 in 300wsm last year and love it. I took a pronghorn( at a measured 362 yards) and 4 deer with it last fall. Tha only meat i lost was on a deer that I led too much and hit in the front shoulder. I think its a great all around caliber and good for anything you can hunt in the US as long as shot placement is good. It's all about practice, practice, practice.

[dino82520]

I own a 300 Wby and don't use it as much as I should. Recoil is substantial. After meat hunting for the last 30 or so years, when I take 2 weeks to really beat the bushes for a trophy elk or mulie, I grab the 300. If that trophy is 3, 4 or 500 yds away I want to knock him down and let as much air out of him as possible. I want to anchor him. I've killed more elk with a 300 Savage, but it is no 300 yd elk rifle. Just my $.02 worth.

Dean

[chiefjefe]

I like the ballistics of the 300 Weatherby, but how big of a recoil difference would I be dealing with. A little more recoil wouldn't be bad for the improved power and range, but a huge jump would not be good. I like the Weatehrby Vanguard in Stainless Sporter and it's made in both calibers. Some people toldme that 300 Weatherby would be much more suitable for larger than deer game, even the big bears over the 300 WSM, but it seems like it would be suitable for most of the same animals. Thanks for any replies.

Handle both, maybe take both the wsm and wthby out and shoot if you can from some friends who may have them. Either the wsm or the wby is plenty of gun for anything in NA, hedging that if you wanted to shoot huge bears I would like something even larger:)

A lot of folks hunt elk with 270 and 270wsms so you won't be under gunned with either.

[Fishinado]

I've shot the Wby, wsm, and win mag. 300 wby will knock you into next week, win mag is tolerable, and the wsm is now my main caliber. Bottom line, if you're not very recoil sensitive, are hunting large game at long range, and don't mind the cost of the ammo, go Wby. If you don't have the afore mentioned needs, and don't reload go win mag. If you do reload, and want the latest and IMHO the greatest in cartidge technology, go wsm. Wsm factory ammo is also available just about everywhere, and is getting to be one of the most popular of the .30cals. My2 cents.

[hd.jackson]

The R1 is a great rifle, I know. But, it is really heavy and its a semi-auto, which means its not as reliable as a bolt action. I suggest the Sako 85 model, in a .300 mag or .7mm. If you get the chance to go bear hunting, you will find that all the guides use bolt action rifles. Good luck and happy hunting.
HD

[dubyam]

I've shot the Wby, wsm, and win mag. 300 wby will knock you into next week, win mag is tolerable, and the wsm is now my main caliber. Bottom line, if you're not very recoil sensitive, are hunting large game at long range, and don't mind the cost of the ammo, go Wby. If you don't have the afore mentioned needs, and don't reload go win mag. If you do reload, and want the latest and IMHO the greatest in cartidge technology, go wsm. Wsm factory ammo is also available just about everywhere, and is getting to be one of the most popular of the .30cals. My2 cents.

Recoil is such a subjective issue. I've shot the Weatherby and the WinMag, and I can tell you that both are 'noticeable' in recoil, but neither knocked me into next week. Now, would I like to sit through 50rds of either at the bench? Nope. But I can get through 20rds of load workup with a 300Wby without losing my mind or my shoulder, and without developing a flinch. It's all in what you get used to, what your tolerance is, and primarily in how good your shooting form is. There's no magic in recoil tolerance. It's like anything, it takes training and practice, and you develop it.

I don't doubt your assessment, Fish, I just find my assessment to be different. I suspect if the original poster shot all three, we'd be just as likely to get a third, different assessment as we would agreement with either you or me. This is no slam or flame to you, please understand. I just thought I'd offer the other side of the coin. I know people who can sit down at the bench and shoot through three boxes of 340Wby (that's 60rds!) without a flinch or a problem. I am not there yet...but someday, maybe!

Good luck on the choice, and on the hunting afterward.

[bullet]

I own a 300WSM Browning A-Bolt, a 300Win Mag Ruger Mk II Stainless, and a 300Wby Custom Mark V and with 180gr bullets the felt recoil is basically the same and the Mark V stock makes the 300Wby no worse than the other two 300 mags I own. I would choose the 300Wby hands down over the 300WSM in velocity, accuracy and of course the range of bullet weights as well as power. No contest what so ever, the 300Wby without hesitation.

[C. Schutte]

Recoil is such a subjective issue. I've shot the Weatherby and the WinMag, and I can tell you that both are 'noticeable' in recoil, but neither knocked me into next week. Now, would I like to sit through 50rds of either at the bench? Nope. But I can get through 20rds of load workup with a 300Wby without losing my mind or my shoulder, and without developing a flinch. It's all in what you get used to, what your tolerance is, and primarily in how good your shooting form is. There's no magic in recoil tolerance. It's like anything, it takes training and practice, and you develop it.

I don't doubt your assessment, Fish, I just find my assessment to be different. I suspect if the original poster shot all three, we'd be just as likely to get a third, different assessment as we would agreement with either you or me. This is no slam or flame to you, please understand. I just thought I'd offer the other side of the coin. I know people who can sit down at the bench and shoot through three boxes of 340Wby (that's 60rds!) without a flinch or a problem. I am not there yet...but someday, maybe!

Good luck on the choice, and on the hunting afterward.





I'm with Dubbie on the recoil issue. I hear this often about the recoil between the Wby. and a 300 shortie so each time I'm at the range I try to notice any differences at all. What I have been able to notice is that the actual sharpness is the same but the Wby. pushes me back a little more. This is just subjective on my part but I think that it is the sharpness that makes one feel it. I have also weighed my rifles and the Wby is the heaviest so that has to play into it. I once broke in the barrel of a friends brand new 300 wby. light mt. rifle before a scope was mounted. Before the end of that little job I risked having to turn in my "man" card by reaching for my sissy pad. I'll also agree that experience at the range will also help recoil. The more your shoot those big guns the less you notice it.

The original poster (3 years ago) mentioned that he had been told that the Wby is better suited for the big bears and I disagree. Yeah, the Wby will handle 200 and 220 grain bullets far better and that is a real advantage for large game but, if a 300 win mag or a 300 WSM is not enough then the Wby is not either. It is not always what amount of energy that is written down on a chart that matters. Big heavy bullets have more whompum. They have a larger bite and surface area which matters.

[meatmachineman]

Something which seemed to get lost in all this is what sort of range is the shooter looking to take game at. Being that the original question voiced concern over recoil, I would see no reason to suggest either round if he never plans on shooting past 300yards. An 06 would be plenty. I for some unspeakable reason own 2 300 win mags. I'm not comfortable shooting at long distances, so when I see my win mags in my safe, I just shake my head and ask, "Why?"

One topic that came up is the use of a muzzlebrake. It is just too hard to say what the recoil will feel like afterwards unless he gets the same rifle that is used in the example. For instance, my two 300s. One is a custom mauser with no muzzlebrake. The other is a Ruger M77 with a muzzlebrake. They kick about the same. If I were to put a brake on my mauser and it kicked like an 06 and said a brake will make YOUR gun feel like an 06, there is a good chance you'll be disappointed. And they are loud. The first time I pulled the trigger on my Ruger at the range, everyone stopped and looked my direction to find out what the heck was just fired!

I guess where I'm going with this is... if you are concerned about the recoil of magnum calibers for mainly deer hunting, you might be looking at the wrong calibers to start with.

Being that this thread is ancient, I'd be curious to find out the original poster decided to do.

[CannedHeat]

Sounds like you should be taking offers on one of those 300's. I however have never sold a gun I've owned...other than selling a Rem 742 with ejection issues. Sold that to a smithy. Hard to fill a safe when you sell 'em off.

[meatmachineman]

Sounds like you should be taking offers on one of those 300's. I however have never sold a gun I've owned...other than selling a Rem 742 with ejection issues. Sold that to a smithy. Hard to fill a safe when you sell 'em off.

I have parted with only one gun (an SKS I traded for the custom mauser... and sometimes I still feel guilty, both for parting with the gun and getting quite a fine rifle for it). Despite how little they get shot, I just find it hard to think about parting with either one. I know I'm not alone there!

[whitetail]

I know this is an old thread, but just in case anyone's reading here goes. Has anyone considered that recoil shouldn't matter? If you are a good marksman, what you do before the trigger is squeezed is what counts. Also, if you are unable to mentally control your reaction to recoil, maybe you are unable to make suitable decisions in the field. Maybe, if you're concerned so much about your mental control you should not be in the field at all. The question here, in my opinion, is not about which 300 to use, it is about whether or not you should be using any rifle where game could be injured, or other hunters for that matter. I, like anyone else, do not like a sore shoulder. Any 300 will give you a sore shoulder after shooting it for a while. Let it happen. Where are the men of today? Sometimes things hurt. Move forward. I'm tired of all the talk about muzzle brakes and recoil pads. Exchange your panties for some boxers. Go hard or go home. If the cartridge best designed for the intended use kicks harder, so what?

[buckgitter]

I know this is an old thread, but just in case anyone's reading here goes. Has anyone considered that recoil shouldn't matter? If you are a good marksman, what you do before the trigger is squeezed is what counts. Also, if you are unable to mentally control your reaction to recoil, maybe you are unable to make suitable decisions in the field. Maybe, if you're concerned so much about your mental control you should not be in the field at all. The question here, in my opinion, is not about which 300 to use, it is about whether or not you should be using any rifle where game could be injured, or other hunters for that matter. I, like anyone else, do not like a sore shoulder. Any 300 will give you a sore shoulder after shooting it for a while. Let it happen. Where are the men of today? Sometimes things hurt. Move forward. I'm tired of all the talk about muzzle brakes and recoil pads. Exchange your panties for some boxers. Go hard or go home. If the cartridge best designed for the intended use kicks harder, so what?

I guess I will say welcome to the forum...but...exchange our panties for some boxers? go hard or go home? You won't be making any new friends with comments like that. Just because one wants to tame down the recoil doesn't make them any less of a man than you...assuming that you are a man. Ridiculing is a sure way of having your post and yourself put on the ignore list......
Have a nice day!

Chris

[C. Schutte]

Did someone leave the gate to the troll pen open?

[chiefjefe]

Man, he sure sounds like a swell guy doesn't he? lol.

[chiefjefe]

Did someone leave the gate to the troll pen open?

Well we all know that the forum is not immune from trolls unfortunately.

[Hunter]

Where are the men of today? Sometimes things hurt. Move forward. I'm tired of all the talk about muzzle brakes and recoil pads. Exchange your panties for some boxers. Go hard or go home.

Do real men wear boxers?

[C. Schutte]

Do real men wear boxers?



I tried them once. What a disaster! Tripping all day long.............................:)

[greenshovel]

I tried them once. What a disaster! Tripping all day long.............................:)

Ouch, lol..

[blkdia]

I have a test for the real man, I'll take the muzzle brake off of my .350RM Handcannon, in a few months when the casts come off, he can claim his prize! lol

[Vaultman]

I know this is an old thread, but just in case anyone's reading here goes. Has anyone considered that recoil shouldn't matter? If you are a good marksman, what you do before the trigger is squeezed is what counts. Also, if you are unable to mentally control your reaction to recoil, maybe you are unable to make suitable decisions in the field. Maybe, if you're concerned so much about your mental control you should not be in the field at all. The question here, in my opinion, is not about which 300 to use, it is about whether or not you should be using any rifle where game could be injured, or other hunters for that matter. I, like anyone else, do not like a sore shoulder. Any 300 will give you a sore shoulder after shooting it for a while. Let it happen. Where are the men of today? Sometimes things hurt. Move forward. I'm tired of all the talk about muzzle brakes and recoil pads. Exchange your panties for some boxers. Go hard or go home. If the cartridge best designed for the intended use kicks harder, so what?

Talk about rattling the cage. You were ok until your last three sentences. You are going to make a quick trip to a few ignore lists if you keep up bringing back old threads and bashing people for wanting to tame recoil.

Do real men wear boxers?

Whitie Tighties all the way.

[Kellyelk]

I know this is an old thread, but just in case anyone's reading here goes. Has anyone considered that recoil shouldn't matter? If you are a good marksman, what you do before the trigger is squeezed is what counts. Also, if you are unable to mentally control your reaction to recoil, maybe you are unable to make suitable decisions in the field. Maybe, if you're concerned so much about your mental control you should not be in the field at all. The question here, in my opinion, is not about which 300 to use, it is about whether or not you should be using any rifle where game could be injured, or other hunters for that matter. I, like anyone else, do not like a sore shoulder. Any 300 will give you a sore shoulder after shooting it for a while. Let it happen. Where are the men of today? Sometimes things hurt. Move forward. I'm tired of all the talk about muzzle brakes and recoil pads. Exchange your panties for some boxers. Go hard or go home. If the cartridge best designed for the intended use kicks harder, so what?So where does shooting a .243 and wearing speedo's leave a guy?

[greenshovel]

So where does shooting a .243 and wearing speedo's leave a guy?

Very cold, lol....In winter that is (o: Only Hunter would post something like that "Real men wear Boxer" I was laughing my but off...

[Kellyelk]

Very cold, lol....In winter that is (o: Only Hunter would post something like that "Real men wear Boxer" I was laughing my but off...
Me too. lol However, what if their Kashmir speedo's?

[greenshovel]

Me too. lol However, what if their Kashmir speedo's?

Well at least a part of your anatomy will stay warm, braahhhh. Me I prefer fleece (o; Wools way too itchy..

[dubyam]

Do real men wear boxers?

Real men go Commando!

So where does shooting a .243 and wearing speedo's leave a guy?

I'd say it leaves you alone at one end of the shooting range, Kelly. Or maybe by yourself entirely...you'd better hope they mowed the grass for those trips down to check targets.

[Kellyelk]

Well at least a part of your anatomy will stay warm, braahhhh. Me I prefer fleece (o; Wools way too itchy..

Real men go Commando!



I'd say it leaves you alone at one end of the shooting range, Kelly. Or maybe by yourself entirely...you'd better hope they mowed the grass for those trips down to check targets.That's where the knee high socks come into play. Thanks for the concern though. Could be a real advantage come hunting season though having a whole area to oneself...........lol

[all_about _the_chase]

What if I wear camo boxer briefs???
Guess I am really "the man"...

Pain don't hurt...for a few seconds, then it's time to go cry in the bathroom like a real man!!

[mstarbird2000]

So where does shooting a .243 and wearing speedo's leave a guy?

WOW why does this seem to me to fit into the movie Borat!!!! I bet Borat would shoot a .243 wile wearing his lime green swim suite. Kelly you don't have currly hair and a mustache do ya LOL.

[backwoodshunter]

a friend of mine has a 300 wby( southgate wby) and i have a 300 wsm(browning a-bolt medallion). and my wsm kicks alot more then his wby. and the wby shoots better. well out of our 2 anyway.and ammo is really about the same depending on what brand you go with. for me i would go with the wby. jmo

brett

[Oldtrader3]

That's stock design and weight. Actually unless you handload, there is not too much difference in factory loads between the Bee and WSM.

If your wearing a Kashmir speedo, it is probably made of regular goat hair. A cashmere speedo would probably be softer and not itch as much as one from Kashmir.

[dubyam]

Oldtrader, I'll disagree with you on the differences in factory ammo. I've not yet seen a 300WSM pushing any 180gr bullets within 150fps of the mid 3200's factory 300Wby ammo produces. In fact, most of the 180gr factory ammo in the 300WSM is running around 2900fps or so, across my chronograph. Granted, my sample size is small - just three different factory guns, two or three shots apiece, for guys at the range to see how fast it's going - but it has been around 2900 pretty consistently. Federal seems to be higher (around 2925-2935fps) versus the Winnie stuff, which is sitting squarely in the very high 2800's. Even Remington 180gr 300Wby ammo is running 3150fps in the rifles I've chrono'd. Weatherby ammo runs much faster - 3240-3280fps.

[Hunter]

I've not yet seen a 300WSM pushing any 180gr bullets within 150fps of the mid 3200's factory 300Wby ammo produces. In fact, most of the 180gr factory ammo in the 300WSM is running around 2900fps or so, across my chronograph. ... Even Remington 180gr 300Wby ammo is running 3150fps in the rifles I've chrono'd. Weatherby ammo runs much faster - 3240-3280fps.

The only time I clocked a 300WSM it shot 180s at 2942 from a 23" barrel; I think they were factory loads, but don't know the brand. I've never clocked the Wby with factory ammo.

[JimT]

Would a 300 Rem Ultra Mag compare more to a 300 Wby Mag then a 300 WSM?

[BigBoreDan]

Would a 300 Rem Ultra Mag compare more to a 300 Wby Mag then a 300 WSM?

In short form...yes.

In factory trim the .300 Weatherby bests the 300 RUM by a hair, in reloaded form the 300RUM holds a velocity advantage over the Weatherby.

[Hunter]

In factory trim the .300 Weatherby bests the 300 RUM by a hair.

That's interesting -- I've never clocked any factory stuff in either cartridge.

PS Is your info based on your own experience? Is it comparing the same brands of ammo?

[JimT]

So it would be like a 308/30-06 comparison I take...

Thanks........

[dubyam]

Kind of like that, Jim.

[Hunter]

So it would be like a 308/30-06 comparison I take...

Not sure what you're asking. Are you asking if the 300 RUM v. the 300 Wby is like the 308/30-06 comparison (with the RUM representing the 308 and the Wby representing the 30-06 in your example)? If that's what you're asking, the answer is NO.

[dubyam]

Well, I'm taking Dan's word on the factory ammo, which would be like the RUM was the 308, but as far as handloading goes, it would be a similar comparison, but the RUM would be the -06, and the 'bee the 308 in that scenario. There's not a huge difference in velocity, but there's about 50-125fps given to the RUM if everything is loaded according to specs and barrel lengths are even.

But the RUM isn't as nice looking with the sharp angled shoulder - no lovely curves like the 'bee.

[BigBoreDan]

I apologize just went back and looked and Remington has since bumped their velocity up to 3250fps. same as the the .300 Weatherby so it's a dead heat in factory trim LOL!!!

Their original loading was 3200fps though. Either way not enough to make a difference at any practical range.

[Oldtrader3]

Don't worry, Dan. Factory ballistics recently change faster than gas prices. I can't keep up with, or believe (!) some of these published tables.

[BigBoreDan]

Don't worry, Dan. Factory ballistics recently change faster than gas prices. I can't keep up with, or believe (!) some of these published tables.

They probably saw the Weatherby was faster and upped the published velocity by 50fps and said who's counting? LOL!!! They know most shooters don't use a chronograph.

Oh well either way it matters little on the game shot with either cartridge...

[Oldtrader3]

They did it for the 175 grain, 7mm Rem Mag for 40 years. Factory loads were listed at almost 3000 (!) fps, if you could/would believe it!

[Hunter]

I apologize just went back and looked and Remington has since bumped their velocity up to 3250fps. same as the the .300 Weatherby so it's a dead heat in factory trim LOL!!!


I have been puzzled over these numbers, so I looked again at the factory specs from Rem & Wby and saw that Rem's number is from a 24" barrel and Wby's is from a 26" barrel. Not puzzled any longer. :)

[Oldtrader3]

Plus, if you ar looking at downrange velocity and energy, you have to consider which bullet configuration is being listed. Sometimes it is comparing apples to oranges (i.e. Cor-Lokt's to Nosler Ballistic Tips) because the ballistic coefficients are so different.

[BigBoreDan]

Just for laughs I will have my cousin bring his 300 RUM up hunting and we will run them across the chronograph and then we will eliminate some of the variables. He has two of them so we should get a decent sample anyway.

Hunter my Barnes manual shows both the .300 RUM and .300 Weatherby shot of a 24" barrel and it is dead heat even in reloaded trim then. I think the .300 RUM especially needs at least a 26" barrel to be efficient.