7mm Rem Mag vs 30-06

[bearhunter]

I've been looking for a good gun that would suit my needs for anything in North America from white tails to grizzlies. Which one of the two would be the better choice?

[mstarbird2000]

I've been looking for a good gun that would suit my needs for anything in North America from white tails to grizzlies. Which one of the two would be the better choice?

Personally if big bear is on the list then "none of the above". Both "could" do the job in ideal situations, but I wouldn't want a peed of bear anywhere near me!!!. Personally I would start looking at .300 mags (.300 RUM, .30-378 Wby.) or even better the .338 Mags especally in a bolt action. Also in a lever gun something in the 45-70, and .450 marlin class.

Now for just black bear I like the .30-06 more. It has so much ammo avalible every where. Recoil isn't bad. And almost every gun maker I know of has it chambered in atleast one of its products.

[Rider]

I wouldn't want either of those for a grizzly. A .300 Win Mag at the very minimum is what I want.

[all_about _the_chase]

The 7mm rem mag is the most popular magnum in north america for a reason. Go 7mm... Shoots flatter and more importantly has less wind drift. Chambered by pretty much every manufacturer, and ammunition is widely available.

[duckshell1]

I would have to agree with both other replys. the 300 win mag is my gun of choice. the recoil is not nearly as bad as most people will say that it is. but of you are set on the 7mm mag or 30-06 i would deffinatly go with the 7 mag. the ballistics are far better then the 30-06, the recoil is alot far more forgiving. i have shot and hunted with all 3 and i deffinatly preferer the 300 over all as far as around go to gun, but betweent he two go with the 7 mag and you will not be dissapointed as long as you dont try to tackle a grizzle with it

[tddeangelo]

I read a great article by an elk guide a while back who said that hunters argue this back and forth, and for elk, the guide side it's a wash.

The 7Mag isn't really "flatter enough" to make that big a deal over the '06, and the '06 doesn't shoot "heavier enough" bullets over the 7Mag. Even a .300 Mag is generally considered to give .30-06 performance, but 100 yards farther than the .30-06 provides it. That's pretty much on the money.

If you want to kill big mean things real quick, you get the biggest bullets you can and make them go as fast as possible. The .338WM is an option, the RUM/Weatherby options are there, too. I would think you'd want to look up into the .375's. Look what they take for dangerous game in Africa. Not a .30 anything in the mix.

[citori]

I personally would like something heavier than 30 caliber for the biggest bears but for interior grizzlies, of which something over 650 pounds is getting to be huge, the 7mm mag and 30/06 with 160 gr or heavier bullets of stout construction would be adequate. For the typically larger coastal grizzlies which are more often taken at rather close range, I would feel much better using something of at least 338 caliber tossing a 250 gr or larger controlled expansion bullet.
For any of the "less dangerous" North American game, there is not a wits difference between the 30/06 and the 7mm Rem mag except for ammo cost if one buys factory. I personally would lean toward the 30/06 as it has slightly heavier bullets available but overall it is a wash. The two extra inches of barrel found on the 7mm mag is not enough of a deterent to me, the gun is no longer and often shorter than most pump or auto shotguns with 26" barrels.
I've got a couple of 30/06s and a couple of 7mm mags and of the guns I own, they are probably the least used as they really do not do anything better or different than other choices I have. These two cartridges are very good at what they do best- be an "all around" cartridge choice for the vast majority North American (and world wide for that matter) game. I don't think they were ever intended for the heavier, meaner game but in a pinch they can be capable.

[BEARBOB]

I wouldn't want either of those for a grizzly. A .300 Win Mag at the very minimum is what I want.

I second that thought and note the word is minimum.

[JimT]

Neither. Buy the 06 for deer and at least a .338 win mag for the griz.

[Paul_ME230]

with the 7mag you're going to get more distance than the 06, and about the same hitting power (energy) with roughly 180 grain bullets. the 30-06 will kill any animal in north america, and same with the 7mag, but since you mentioned grizzlies, i'd have to agree with the other guys and look yourself into the 300 calibers. 338 is perfect. and then u'll definitely have the old whitetail taken care of.

[Oldtrader3]

I have both calibers and like both. For long distance deer-sized game shooting, I would use 150 gr. Nosler Partitions in the 7mm Rem Mag. For routine hunting of deer or elk, I would use the 30'06 loads. For grizzlies, I would buy a .338 Win Mag. and shoot 250 grain bullets built for expansion and deep penetration.

Saw an episode of the "World Of Beretta" where the host, Chris Dorsey, hunted brown bear in Alaska by varmit calling them to within 15 yards. He used a .375 H&H Mag to stop that charging 9'+ boar brown bear. I would too under those circumstances.

[Cam]

Go to Federal's website and compare velocity and energy figures,at 200 and 300 yards..Also look at their High Energy offering in 180 grain Trophy Bonded Tip..I think this one beats or equals the 7 with a heavier bullet..The 06 is a lot easier to tote all day in rough country..ammo is generally cheaper..I shot a fairly large grizzly with 180gr.corelok in northern BC..Shot went through both shoulders and exited.Yes, I gave it an insurence shot or two but it was on the ground and immobile from one shot..The moose was big too.I use 165's on elk and smaller..Only problem with 06 is it's still no 1 and boring I guess!

[Oldtrader3]

My '06 weighs almost the same as my 7mm Mag or my .338 WM weigh, all model 70's that is. Weight is not a criteria for carry for me with these rifles, nor are ballistic energy tables because they square the velocity. Kinetic energy is more realistic but still doesn't tell the whole story. People even kill elk with .243's all the time that doesn't make the .243 a suitable elk rifle. I have killed a deer on fast draw during a predation hunt with a Browning Highpower pistol while taking a leak on the brush that it was hiding in. So does that make the 9mm round a deer round?

Many barren ground grizzlies have been killed by the 30'06, I am sure, and the TBB high velocity load has certainly a good reputation. Given a clean broadside shoulder shot at 100+ yards a 30'06 will kill that grizzle almost all the time. What if you shoot too far back or shoot too high and have to follow that animal wounded into the alders? Do you want a 30'06 then?

[tddeangelo]

As far as the 7Mag vs .30-06, I looked in my Hornady manual this morning.

A 154gr bullet in the 7Mag is within 100fps of a 165gr bullet in the '06. The two have similar ballistic characteristics, hence why I used the two as a comparison.

Like I said before, the difference isn't worth the time spent discussing it. Pick whichever you like best and use it. Neither has an advantage over the other.

[WMU3A]

take it from a retired big bear guide...a 30-06 with 200 gr bullets has killed more big browns and interior grizzlies than ANY OTHER caliber ...i used one myself in a Winchester mdl 54 for many years only after a trip to Africa started using a Mauser 458WM simply cause i had invested in one.
One should also note for many years the .270 was considered the ultimate elk caliber.
It seems as though the only people whom think all these newer calibers we have today are really needed are the ones whom make or sell them ....(BTW I'm in the selling biz myself)

[Oldtrader3]

Comparing a 165 gr .308 bullet to a 154 gr 7mm bullet is apples to oranges. The 140 gr 7mm bullet has the same BC as the 165 .308 bullet not the 154 gr 7mm, which is almost the equivalent of a 180 gr .308 bullet. Using the same BC equivalent comparison, there is about a 10% (250 fps) velocity difference with the 140 gr 7mm mag bullet vs. the 165, .30'06 bullet, or about the difference between 200 and 300 yard terminal velocities.

I don't see Larry Csonka or Chris Dorsey, et al on outdoor shows, using a 200 gr 30'06 on brown bear. This is for the same reason that I wouldn't use the '06 for brown bear. My one brown bear hunt was cancelled because my dad was ill but that guide whom I respect, recommended that both of us bring something .300 Weathrby on up, whatever we could shoot well.

You can shoot all the grizzlies that you want with an '06, but I won't. Karamojo Bell killed many elephants with a 7mm Mauser, but I won't. I have known a few guides who use what I would consider marginal calibers for elk and bear. I think that "familiarity breeds contempt", as the saying goes.

[tddeangelo]

I'm not arguing for the use of EITHER for dangerous game, don't mistake that.

And I don't have my manual in front of me, so I can't do too much digging, but you are correct in that the SD/BC match better for the 154gr 284 compared to a 180 in .308. And assuming a 250fps difference, it still isn't that big a deal, really. To my line of thinking, not enough to warrant the extra powder, extra barrel wear, and extra barrel length you need to effectively utilize the 7Mag. If folks like it, more power to them, I don't mind who uses what. I think my point is that the '06 gives up comparatively little to the 7Mag, especially compared to what some folks think the difference between the two rounds to be.

[WMU3A]

.

I don't see Larry Csonka or Chris Dorsey, et al on outdoor shows, using a 200 gr 30'06 on brown bear. This is for the same reason that I wouldn't use the '06 for brown bear. My one brown bear hunt was cancelled because my dad was ill but that guide whom I respect, recommended that both of us bring something .300 Weathrby on up, whatever we could shoot well.

You can shoot all the grizzlies that you want with an '06, but I won't. Karamojo Bell killed many elephants with a 7mm Mauser, but I won't. I have known a few guides who use what I would consider marginal calibers for elk and bear. I think that "familiarity breeds contempt", as the saying goes.


Oldtrader you know why you don't??? They use whatever their sponsors tell them to use...guess what their sponsors are selling.
Also you may be too young or not old enough but I'm not ,I recall when polar bears,kodiaks, etal were regularly hunted with .300 Savages and the 250/3000(todays clone the 257Roberts) was the deer and elk hunting rifle EVERYONE just had to get their hands on .
As a retired guide myself whom was in on my share of brown bear hunts I NEVER EVER told a client what gun or caliber to bring as long as it met the legal minimum for the species and doubt many working guides today do it either........bullet placement kills game an no amounts of copper/powder will EVER replace that.
I watched a 13 year old boy kill one of the largest kodiaks I'd ever seen clean as a whistle with one shot from a .7mm-08 cause that kid could shoot better than most grown men whom THOUGHT they could shoot some whiz bang magnum and flinched from it so badly they couldn't hit a water bucket at 30 yds!

[Oldtrader3]

I am probably older than most of the posters on this site. I have been legally hunting (and killing) deer and a few elk since 1956. Thus, I am fully aware that the native people in the far north used .250 Savage's and .22 Savage Hipowers to kill polar bear and walrus. I worked as Diamond Driller as far north as Ungava Quebec when I was young. I have killed many of my deer with .270 Winchester and some with 7mm Mags and 30'06's. I doubt the deer knew the difference.

"Some say potato and some say potaato". Use what you like and all I will as well. I am only posting my personal preference, based on deer and elk hunting and the recording of many kills. However, I will say that the marginal power of the 150 grain 7mm Mag is evident against the 165, 30'06, as far as I am concerned. That is simply put, physics. But then, the .270 Winchester kills as well as the 7mm Mag on most deer.

[Cam]

I got one last thing only to see if I get the last word in(for 10 minutes)..If a person shoots a big bear in the guts with anything,I don't want to be around there..carry on!!

[LeVan]

For sure a poor shot is a poor shot no matter what you use. My Hornady reloading manual says that a 190 grain 30 cal out of an -06 can beat any 7mm mag loading. And you use less powder doing it.

[dubyam]

I'm not sure which Hornady manual you're reading, as I've checked both the 4th and the 7th on my shelf, and neither gives the -06 any advantage at any yardage mark. In fact, in terms of trajectory, the 7mmRemMag is a full 3" less drop at 350yds, and a greater than 4" at 400yds. That's one full MOA less drop for the 7mmRemMag, and those velocities are from a 24" barrel on the 7mm, and a 23.5" barrel on the -06. I suspect most -06's are running a 22" barrel as the factory built them. It's only been recently that 24" barrels have become the norm again for sporters. Comparing energy, the 7mm is better by 50-100lbs out beyond 400yds, so that's a loss for the -06, as well. If you have different numbers, I'd love to see them.

[mainedeersniper]

.30-06 for deer. Nethier 30-06 or 7mm rem mag for grizzilies. If i had it my way, i would have a .30-378 weatherby or a .338-378 weatherby for pretty much any north american game. I would definately have atleast something above .308" for grizzilies

EDIT: There was a guy in Field and Stream in some 06 or 07 issue that used a .300 win mag and harvested all 30 northamerican game animals. The article talked how he only used one gun. Good of example of the thread CHS has about be aware of the man with one rifle....

[mcseal2]

I own a 30-06 and a 7mm Rem Mag. I would consider both good guns for black bear or any antlered game, but would want a bigger caliber for any dangerous game. The 7mm is my pick of the two.

I shoot my 7mm Rem Mag for whitetail with a reduced 140gr load that shoots 3000fps and anything bigger with a 160gr accubond at the same speed. I shoot a lot so this lets me practice and deer hunt with 280 performance and step up a notch when I want to chase bigger game. The drop and wind drift are very close and I don't develop a flinch or burn out a barrel when I don't need the extra punch.

The 30-06 is also a great gun, but it isn't as flat with the lighter bullets, and won't have the same BC with comparable weight bullets. If you insist on having only 1 rifle, the 30-06 or better yet a 300 win mag will offer heavier bullets than the 7mm. I personally would want a 375 for anything I didn't feel comfortable shooting with a 7mm though, not much can withstand a well built 160gr bullet at 3000fps put in the vitals.

There is not a huge difference in ballistics, but enough for me. Here is an example from the newest Hornady book I have. Both guns have 24" barrels and the powder I used is IMR 4831

7mm Rem Mag 162gr SST BC .550 MV 3000fps 60.6gr powder

30-06 165gr SST BC .447 MV 2900 59.5gr powder

I ran both on the Hornady Ballistic calculator, zeroed in at 2.8" high at 100yds and used a 10mph crosswind in my comparison. At 400yds the 7mm bullet has dropped 4" less and drifted 3.1" less with the wind with 1 grain more powder. This is why I like the 7 mag, it is efficient offering excellent performance with acceptable recoil. To shoot a high BC 180gr bullet from a 300 win mag at 3000fps you will use 15 grains more powder and add recoil accordingly.

I want the biggest margin for error I can get to compensate for any misjudgement of range or wind. Out to 300 yards the 30-06 and 7mm are neck and neck, but past that the 7mm with the higher BC bullets wins hands down. I know I will catch h**l for saying anything against the 30-06, but it is just not as efficient with an equal barrel length and equal weight bullet.

My opinion, buy a 7 mag and if you decide to hunt big bears, a 375, then you can hunt any big game and be well matched to your quarry.

[LeVan]

Folks, I stand corrected. In my third edition Hornady manual a 190 gr. 30 cal is the equal of the 175 gr 7mm the differences were measured in 10ths of an inch in favor of the 06. The lighter bullets in the 7mm offer an advantage over the 30s.
I just prefer the 06 over the 7mm mag. I personally don't see that much of a practicle difference between the two, but that is just me. There are lots of people who really like the 7mm mag and that is great. It is good that we all have options to choose from.
According to Wayne van Zwoll there is a larger performance difference between a 300 winchester magnum and the 7mm mag than a 7mm mag and the 06.
Before everyone wries off the 06,consider that Jack O'Conner shot clear through a grizzly in the Yukon using a 180 grain Reminton pointed soft point, Ernest Hemmingway used an O3-A3 to shoot rhino with and Jack's wife killed an elephant with one shot using a 220 gr solid. And the survey that Mr.van Zwoll publishes after each Elk Camp the 30-06 has been the most used caliber to hunt elk with since the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's first Elk Camp.
The 7mm Weatherby and various 300 magmuns are a totally diffferent discussion.

Good luck to everybody who is going hunting this year.