Big bore .45-70 Govt.

[JCalhon]

Looking into buying a .45-70 lever action rifle. I have heard wonderful things about this cartridge and how you can shoot any game in North America with it. I will hunt elk, black bear, moose, and deer with it. I have been looking into the Marlin 1895 Cowboy and the Marlin 1895 Guide gun, both chambered for .45-70.

any suggestions on these guns or another .45-70? Also, any suggestions on a different caliber?

Thanks!

[mstarbird2000]

I have been told the .45-70 properly loaded will take anything on the planet. Its a great cartridge with a ton of energy. Range isn't super long. I wouldn't use it over 150 yards myself. Some people here might be able to get another 100 yards out of it. I have a .45-70 on the wish list as one of my next 4 purchases.

Old military stuff I have read said in battle sharp shooters used it out to 1000 yards with some degree of accuracy. It also said it could knock calvery men right off their horses. The tragectory of the .45-70 is a big rain bow. So bullet drop at long range can be measured in yards not feet. Recoil of the .45-70 has a wide range from what I have read. It all depends on how its loaded up. Lots of info on the net for loading it up as well.

Other sugestions for big bore. My unlcle had a lot of sucess with a marlin 444 but ammo isn't widely avalible and not every one makes rounds for it. Sticking with lever action with out big bears on your list Marlin has that new line designed around the Lever evolution ammo (if memory serves me) and you can get it in .308 (just make sure you don't use pointed rounds). If you want to go with a Browning lever action the amount or caliber choices go up more with some magnums (like the .300 win - samething don't use pointed rounds in any thing that loads up like a marlin or winchester. Anything like the old savage 99's like my dads 250-3000 that load like a bolt action or a clip check the manuf. recomendations!!!) being offired. I think the .338 win is as well but I am not 100% sure on that. I know that the .35's are very good for what you are looking for as well. Lots of people on here rave about the 35 wheelen (spelling?)

Really its all personal preference. .45-70 is a great round and I wouldn't think twice about getting one. Plus there is always atleast 1 excuse out there to by a new rifle.

[WMU3A]

those Marlin 1895 GG are pretty slick...I have them in both 35 Rem and 45-70 . the 45-70 is really a handloaders caliber if you want to get good performance out of it...the factory fodder is not very stout, due to the manufactors needing to think about some fool stuffing some heavy loads into an old trapdoor rifle, with the exception of CorBon and Garretts ammo but those are to expensive for anything other thaan hunting use.
You askedabout other rifles and calibers ...consider buying a bolt rifle in 458win mag, then you can down load the ammoo to 45-70 levels and also have a caliber that can indeed be used on any animal on the planet with the 458 win mag. I load my 458 with 69 grs of h4895 and a 407 gr Rem JSP to use it at 45-70 levels approx 1800fps out of a 22' barrel.

[JimT]

I had one in .450 Marlin and it was a great shooter. Wish I still had it........

[oldpilot]

Looking into buying a .45-70 lever action rifle. I have heard wonderful things about this cartridge and how you can shoot any game in North America with it. I will hunt elk, black bear, moose, and deer with it. I have been looking into the Marlin 1895 Cowboy and the Marlin 1895 Guide gun, both chambered for .45-70.

any suggestions on these guns or another .45-70? Also, any suggestions on a different caliber?

Thanks!

I own a BLR in .450 Marlin and think it a great rifle (20" barrel). After buying it, however, I think I would have preferred an 1895 in 45-70. There are lots more loads available for the 45-70 and the new (since I bought) LE ammo has improved it a good bit with some still reasonably priced ammo.

I do own a .444S with 22" barrel and it's about the same overall length as my BLR, so it's very handy at 40.5" overall length. I'd recommend this model with 22" barrel over either the 18.5" or 26" models you mentioned. Marlin's site no longer shows a 22" .450, only the short barreled version.

The BLR is a good rifle, especially the take-down model and the .450 Marlin would give you the best long-range capability as all the "hot" aftermarket 45-70 loads are flat-nosed bullets. The LE ammo in either the 45-70 or hotter .450 will be good for much of the hunting you mentioned, again the .450 with a tad more range and significantly more power in the LE load.

Good Luck.

[Cabela's Moderator]

Recommend the Marlin 1895G shooting Buffalo Bore ammo (both available at Cabela's). There's nothing on this continent that combo won't take down.

DFM

[.358 MAN]

Looking into buying a .45-70 lever action rifle. I have heard wonderful things about this cartridge and how you can shoot any game in North America with it. I will hunt elk, black bear, moose, and deer with it. I have been looking into the Marlin 1895 Cowboy and the Marlin 1895 Guide gun, both chambered for .45-70.

any suggestions on these guns or another .45-70? Also, any suggestions on a different caliber?

Thanks!
The 45-70 will take thise animals down. However, reloading will increase it's performance.
Someone stated it is for anything that walks the earth. It is truly not adequite for African dangerous game. But it has been done. With the right load it will take on anything in America.
I prefer the .358 win, 35 Whelen or the 350 rem mag.

[mstarbird2000]

Someone stated it is for anything that walks the earth. It is truly not adequite for African dangerous game. But it has been done. With the right load it will take on anything in America.
I prefer the .358 win, 35 Whelen or the 350 rem mag.

All I was saying was in that rounds incredible history it has taken every animal on the planet. Whether it is acceptale or not (.243 for elk all over again here) african game is not the issue I was talking about and purposely avoided it as not to start argument. Some people will argue both sides - so I'm not going there.

But if you want you can reference this:

GARRETT'S 45-70 EXITER AMMO

Actually is listed on the box Elephant, hippo, rino, cape buffalo. 500 grain copper clad steel jacked solid. You canlook on-line for all the tech. stuff on that round.

[headoftheholler]

The 45-70 will take thise animals down. However, reloading will increase it's performance.
Someone stated it is for anything that walks the earth. It is truly not adequite for African dangerous game. But it has been done. With the right load it will take on anything in America.
I prefer the .358 win, 35 Whelen or the 350 rem mag.
The 45-70 is more than adequate for all African game, it has been proven by many, including Cape Buffalo shots penetrating lengthwise. Buffalo Bore and Garrett both make several different loads that will in fact drop any animal on this planet is short order. Ever looked at the metplat of a Garrett 540 grain Hammerhead? They have a .368 sectional density.
Look here: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/trophys_africa5.asp


What makes this cartridge so versitile is that not only can it do the above but you can but 300 grain Remingtons that will knock deer off their feet, and the Hornady LE's are pushing 2050 fps and are deer slayers. To make thing seven better, if you handload, the sky (or your shoulder) is the limit. Not putting down the 35's though, I own a whelen and it does the job, but isn't as versitile or fun to shoot as the 45-70.

This reminds me, 358man, when you gonna roll some man-size handloads for that 405 winny? Its on my bucket list of guns to own.

[Neverhome]

I have the Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun and love it. It carries and swings on target very easily and will indeed take down just about anything. The Remington 405 gr jacketed bullet is very mild to shoot.
It is however a short range gun, dropping very fast with factory loads. I noticed a 2" drop from 50 yds to 75 yds and a 4" drop out to 100 yds with factory ammo. Not a problem for me as most of the shots in my area are taken at about 50 yds. The factory 405 gr leaves the barrel at somewhere around 1350 FPS. I just bought a reloading press and plan on loading them up to around 1750 FPS where I have been told the drop is less dramatic. I dont think you will be dissapointed with the 45-70.

Neverhome

[WMU3A]

I've had the pleasure to hunt African dangerous game and I've done it more than once ina few different countries inside of Africa.... nowhere that I'm aware of is the 45-70 legal to hunt dangerous game with...that alone should tell you enough. Those pictures you'll see floating around of Garrett ammo and the likes were either killed inside fenced ranches in Africa or it was done illegally! It takes more than diameter of a bullet to make a DG round and you just cannot stuff enough powder into the 45-70's case to meet the MINIMUM requirements for FPS & ft #s of energy.
With that said, I purposely loaded some TSX rounds in my 458WM to heavy 45-70 levels and fired some into different buffalos I have killed just to see what they would do from different angles...the results in all cases would've resulted in the death of the capebuffalos but only after the animal had time to go off and die somewhere.
It's way too easy to comment of a subject without any first hand in the field knowledge of it, gleenig all your imfo from web pages doesn't hold much weight when the buff is in the jess with a belly full of hot lead waiting for you to come in after him!

[oldpilot]

I've had the pleasure to hunt African dangerous game and I've done it more than once ina few different countries inside of Africa.... nowhere that I'm aware of is the 45-70 legal to hunt dangerous game with...that alone should tell you enough. Those pictures you'll see floating around of Garrett ammo and the likes were either killed inside fenced ranches in Africa or it was done illegally! It takes more than diameter of a bullet to make a DG round and you just cannot stuff enough powder into the 45-70's case to meet the MINIMUM requirements for FPS & ft #s of energy.
With that said, I purposely loaded some TSX rounds in my 458WM to heavy 45-70 levels and fired some into different buffalos I have killed just to see what they would do from different angles...the results in all cases would've resulted in the death of the capebuffalos but only after the animal had time to go off and die somewhere.
It's way too easy to comment of a subject without any first hand in the field knowledge of it, gleenig all your imfo from web pages doesn't hold much weight when the buff is in the jess with a belly full of hot lead waiting for you to come in after him!

I have read the same information from licensed PHs from Africa and one was nice enough to PM me on another forum to explain in detail what you have done here for everyone. Thanks.

[mstarbird2000]

I've had the pleasure to hunt African dangerous game and I've done it more than once ina few different countries inside of Africa.... nowhere that I'm aware of is the 45-70 legal to hunt dangerous game with...that alone should tell you enough. Those pictures you'll see floating around of Garrett ammo and the likes were either killed inside fenced ranches in Africa or it was done illegally! It takes more than diameter of a bullet to make a DG round and you just cannot stuff enough powder into the 45-70's case to meet the MINIMUM requirements for FPS & ft #s of energy.
With that said, I purposely loaded some TSX rounds in my 458WM to heavy 45-70 levels and fired some into different buffalos I have killed just to see what they would do from different angles...the results in all cases would've resulted in the death of the capebuffalos but only after the animal had time to go off and die somewhere.
It's way too easy to comment of a subject without any first hand in the field knowledge of it, gleenig all your imfo from web pages doesn't hold much weight when the buff is in the jess with a belly full of hot lead waiting for you to come in after him!

Right wrong or indiffrent all I was saying is that it has been done period. I never once said I would stick my neck on the line with one. Pesonally I could care less about hunting in africa. I don't have any desire to drop 10000+ on any hunt. Any one can argue all they want on what you can and can't use over there, it still doesn't change the history behind that round, nor does it change that fact that atleast 2 manufactors are producing rounds for that cartridge for African top 5. Personally I agree with using enough gun for the job for any animal I hunt. Thats why I don't have any desire to hunt big bear. I know I can't take the recoil of a 375 or a 416. Its like a few weeks ago when we all argued over whether or not a .243 is an acceptable elk round. Whether you agree or not its being done. Whether you agree or not with bringing a 45-70 to africa its been done. Accept it or not. I not debating ethics, I am talking history. There is a "BIG" diffrence.

[mstarbird2000]

Looking into buying a .45-70 lever action rifle. I have heard wonderful things about this cartridge and how you can shoot any game in North America with it. I will hunt elk, black bear, moose, and deer with it. I have been looking into the Marlin 1895 Cowboy and the Marlin 1895 Guide gun, both chambered for .45-70.

any suggestions on these guns or another .45-70? Also, any suggestions on a different caliber?

Thanks!

Jcalhon,
Sorry this thread has gotten side tracked from you original post. If you really want a .45-70 get one. I don't think you will be disappointed with it. Its a great round with a vast history. You can get ammo for it all over the place. I personally hunt spots with most my shots under 50 yards in the brush. A lever gun like the 45-70 is hard to beat in place like where I hunt. Personal preference for me would be the guide gun. You take a little more of a beating in the shoulder but for me the extra mobility is worth it.

[EcoRover]

Do not underestimate the venerable 45-70, even with cast lead bullets.

Several years ago, I was invited along as a "shooter" to kill several buffalo (aka American bison) for my daughter's Montana history class. The kids field dress the buffalo with stone tools, then the school holds "buffalo day" for butchering, tipis & displays on the lawn, kids pegging & scraping hides, boiling skulls, etc. Good old Butte High School.

Anyway, I borrowed a friend's 458 Winchester Magnum (classic old M-70) and thought it would be just the thing. The ranch that donated the animals wanted us to kill an old bull, and as soon as we pulled the rifles from the back seat of the truck he knew what was up and headed over the hill. We chased him over to the next coulee where he made a stand.

I shot him in the shoulder and he buckeled a little but started walking. It took another shot near the ear to put him down for good. The first bullet, a factory soft-point keyholed after entering and the lead core squeezed out of its jacket and lodged against the bone. The hide on those old bulls is very tough. Saw a shooter with a 338 Win Mag use several shots to stop one. His first bullet mushroomed and stopped against the spine and the bull didn't even show that it was hit.

So much for the mighty 458 (and 338)--at least with Winchester factory softpoints!

Another shooter with a 45-70 loaded with hard cast lead bullets killed one with no problem at all. Bullet plowed through and broke the shoulder--recovered bullet looked like it could have been reloaded as is.

I looked into this a little: the 45-70 was THE buffalo hunting cartridge. All those fancy late-comers like the 45-110 etc came along too late and were used to kill relatively few buffalo. I suppose it was hard to beat cheap military surplus ammo, too.